Hereford Traffic 'Lights Out' Meeting

[Colin James]

I will be attending a meeting in the Town Hall Council chambers this evening with our MP Jesse Norman, Paul Hillman from the HA ( Paul Hillman designed both the Belmont/Asda scheme and Edgar St ) his boss Andy Butterfield as well as national campaigner/expert Martin Cassini, John Harrington, Amanda Martin and John Llewellyn-Perkins. We all want them to trial a "lights out" hopefully in Hereford sometime in the New Year (but I suspect it is not as simple as that) as well as discussing the possibility of making the ring road traffic lights part time (7pm-7am) I will update you all later. Wish us good luck.

[bobby47]

Good luck lad. You'll know within the first ten minutes how its going to go. Try and make your bundle of papers bigger than their bundle of papers. They, the ones you are up against, like a bundle of papers and if your bundle is less the size than their bundle you're in trouble. Mind, don't make your bundle hugely bigger than their bundle because then they'll take offence and become angered that you are carrying more than them.

[Simon Brown]

I admire a radical thinker more than words can say. This kind of scheme works in many places in Europe so there can be no excuse for not at least trying it. If it fails, no harm done. If it works, everyone's life is improved, permanently.

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

Best of luck, Colin.  If there's time (and I expect you've covered this already) photocopy for all those attending the meeting this afternoon, the letter in this week's HT from the lady who confirms categorically what you've been banging on about for yonks: viz - during busy rush-hour periods,when the lights are out the traffic moves; when the lights are on the traffic jams.

[JudSawyer]

I don't see how this could be a good thing. Traffic lights at roundabouts are designed to create artificial gaps for traffic to flow through.

 

When the lights were out at the bottom of Edgar St a fornight ago, it took me half an hour to drive down Edgar St, which I could have walked in 5 minutes. When you drive up Edgar St, you get stuck at traffic light-less Heart of Oak roundabout.

 

It is simple: When you go around a roundabout, as you all know, you give priority to drivers coming from your right. In some locations, of course, there IS no break in traffic from the right so either you wait there for hours, or you take a risk. Inserting traffic lights allows everyone to get a go.

[dippyhippy]

Best of luck Colin!

Try and take a clipboard as well....and something laminated,that always looks important!!

[Biomech]

Good luck Colin!

[Colin James]

I don't see how this could be a good thing. Traffic lights at roundabouts are designed to create artificial gaps for traffic to flow through.

 

When the lights were out at the bottom of Edgar St a fornight ago, it took me half an hour to drive down Edgar St, which I could have walked in 5 minutes. When you drive up Edgar St, you get stuck at traffic light-less Heart of Oak roundabout.

 

It is simple: When you go around a roundabout, as you all know, you give priority to drivers coming from your right. In some locations, of course, there IS no break in traffic from the right so either you wait there for hours, or you take a risk. Inserting traffic lights allows everyone to get a go.

 

Welcome to HV.

Jud you need to read through all of the various studies that we have made before making comments, believe me this has been studied and documented in Hereford by me and others for over 4 years, so please believe e when I tell you that traffic flows much better when the lights are out.

 

You need to have a careful look at what you have written as you say 2 weeks ago it was chaos your correct but southbound, as you quite clearly state you could of walked it quicker! That is because there were temporary traffic lights on on the roundabout, however, northbound (with the football ground on your right) the traffic flowed down Edgar St much better, I know because I drive it everyday and made a video that you can find HERE.

[Glenda Powell]

What happened at the meeting this afternoon, Colin?

[dippyhippy]

Perhaps it has all gone pear shaped, and Colin is holding them in a locked room until his demand are met....????

[Colin James]

The meeting was in our opinion very successful and we need ALL of your support please, we can't be negative about this at all, there are no guarantee's that Hereford Council or the Highway's Agency will agree to any of our idea's but we have to give it a try and now with the recent success of the IOC the council realise that they need to start listening! 

John Harrington (who organised the meeting) has said that the majority of IOC Councillors are behind the idea, so I will contact Jon Norris over the next few days (as I know him).

Martin Cassini (Martin Cassini is a TV programme-maker and campaigner for traffic system reform. He advocates replacing priority with equality to provide a level playing-field on which all road-users can act sociably) spoke very well and put his weight behind a shared space scheme and turning off all lights! If we can get Hereford to adopt these idea's then the BBC may well dedicate a program using Hereford as an example of how successful this can be. Search for Martin on Google.

Martin will be registering on HV today and has some very good idea's, we need him on side and to be fair Martin is very keen to be involved.

Jesse Norman in fairness is also in favour of 'lights out' and will do all that he can to support our campaign and will attend future meetings if required, he asked the HA representatives all the relevant questions.

The HA are happy to look at our collective idea's but want to run a model in the first instance, this will be funded by them by the sounds of it.

Amanda Martin is also pushing for extra cycle lanes around Edgar Street and in Hereford in general.

John Llewellyn-Perkins was involved with the 'save the tree's' campaign together with Amanda and John Harrington to name just a few.

We have formed the 'Lights Out Group' (LOG) and will do all that we can collectivly in an attempt to make the traffic situation in Hereford a lot better than what it is right now. 

We all have different idea's and views and may not agree with each others but I think we all on the same page and agree on a Lights Out campaign, this together with Shared Space has to be the way forward.

 

Quote

 (When lights are out of action, do we start crashing into each other? Does traffic seize up?

No, we approach slowly and take it in turns. Courtesy thrives and congestion dissolves. Pedestrians are seen as fellow road-users rather than obstacles in the way of the next light.

In "shared space", a theory pioneered by the late Hans Monderman (1945-2008), traffic controls are removed, streets become civilised again.

Where once a green light licensed aggression, now there is peaceful coexistence between road-users.

Q. No rules? It would be anarchy.

A. Peaceful anarchy. Live and let live. Like a skateboard park, where teens of all stripes nod each other on and merge in harmony).

 

[Frank Smith]

This is a brilliant idea, Martin clearly knows his stuff when it comes to traffic lights, I was only reading an article recently, so great to have Martin onboard with you all Colin, lets hope you can at some stage get a trial at the very least.

[Victor Wright]

You have my support Colin, some good people listed above and I agree as a collective group you will probably achieve more than as individuals. Keep up the good work and I will help promote your idea's as best as I can with my friends and colleagues.   

[Colin James]

Another good article 

[Biomech]

Sounds like it all went very positively.

I must applaud you Colin, it's almost impossible to make a difference in Hereford unless you sit in the cabinet and make it up as you go along. You've done phenomenally well.

 

 

The HA are happy to look at our collective idea's but want to run a model in the first instance,

 

 

I was thinking about this the other day, surely they used a software model to anticipate the traffic of the new lanes and new lights around the Tesco roundabout?
If so, then what went wrong? If not, then why not - as they clearly have the tools to run a simulation?
 

[Biomech]

Oh I think it's worth making clear that we are talking about roundabouts here, we don't want to give people the impression we mean all lights (Broadleys X road for example) and certainly don't want to encourage those in charge to turn off ALL lights :P

[Colin James]

Oh I think it's worth making clear that we are talking about roundabouts here, we don't want to give people the impression we mean all lights (Broadleys X road for example) and certainly don't want to encourage those in charge to turn off ALL lights :P

 

I believe that we are looking mainly at the ring road, city centre and immediate surrounding area's 

[dippyhippy]

Well done Colin, and thanks for reporting back to us so promptly!

Has any sort of timescale been hinted at??

[Colin James]

Well done Colin, and thanks for reporting back to us so promptly!

Has any sort of timescale been hinted at??

Early days, but we discussed a model simulation which will take some setting up, this must of been done at the time but I think it was with traffic lights on in mind, so now we have to create a new model with lights off and also impliment shared space, so cannot define a timescale right now but we will keep you all in the loop. 

 

We are not 100% with the group name as it may get confused with street lighting, Martin has suggested 'Hereford Reunited' which is a great name and I like it but it says little about traffic lights being turned off..your idea's would be welcome at this early stage

[M. Preece]

Wow, I am impressed and I love the whole enthusiastic approach to it. I like your group name Lights Out but here are a few idea's of mine

 

Offlight

Signals No More

Hereford Flow

[dippyhippy]

What about...

 

(Traffic)LIGHTS! (Traffic)CAMERA'S! (Traffic) ACTION...????

[ragwert]

I don't see how this could be a good thing. Traffic lights at roundabouts are designed to create artificial gaps for traffic to flow through.

 

When the lights were out at the bottom of Edgar St a fornight ago, it took me half an hour to drive down Edgar St, which I could have walked in 5 minutes. When you drive up Edgar St, you get stuck at traffic light-less Heart of Oak roundabout.

 

It is simple: When you go around a roundabout, as you all know, you give priority to drivers coming from your right. In some locations, of course, there IS no break in traffic from the right so either you wait there for hours, or you take a risk. Inserting traffic lights allows everyone to get a go.

The reason why there was chaos Jud is because they who know best thought it a great idea to install temp lights half way around roundabout and turning a blind eye to the mayhem they were causing.

[M. Preece]

The reason why there was chaos Jud is because they who know best thought it a great idea to install temp lights half way around roundabout and turning a blind eye to the mayhem they were causing.

Correct    I still don't understand why they never turned them all off while they had the opportunity. 

 

I have thought of another group name;

 

Sequence Free

or

Lifeless Lights

[bobby47]

Look, I like Colin James. As far as Im concerned Colin James is a good lad and I'll fight anyone in a battle cruiser who says otherwise but, you are dealing with the Hereford Council here. Strangers to success. Years and years of years unblemished by any form of achievement and they'll never turn off those bloody lights.

Colin James is a lovely lad, so are his family, his ancestors and his descendants yet to be born but Im telling you all now that this bloody Council will never cave in to anything associated with common sense. It ain't going to happen and anyone who thinks otherwise is someone who's beer glass is half full. Never! They'll never do it. Not while I've got lungs to inhale my tobacco smoke and I've got teeth to bite my way through pork rind. Never! And the sooner you all get used to the fact that this bloody Council will completely ignore Colin's crusade the better it is for me, my eczema and anyone out there who's as bewildered as I am.

Never! It'll not happen.

And just to show how confident I am, if Colin does succeed, I'll donate £20 pound sterling to Hereford Voice and enclosed with this financial instrument, namely a bloody cheque, will be a photograph of me naked sat on my chair nibbling Scratchings whilst trying to restrain my wife who understandably can't keep her hands off me.

[dippyhippy]

Blimey Colin!

If that not an incentive to keep up your good work, I don't know what is!!!

[Jim Kenyon]

Well done Colin you know my feeling on this issue up and at them!!!

[Bill Thomas]

This is all good and I know Colin has been fighting for a traffic lights out trail for many years. Joining forces is the best way to handle this but I think you have all had a positive initial meeting and as a group you will generate a bigger momentum. The more Councillors that back this campaign the better and I am sure the local Councillors as well as the IOC will be right behind you on this one.

 

I am a keen cyclists so if we can get some extra cycle lanes provided within the shared space I will be chuffed.

 

Well done to all who attended the meeting, you have my complete support. Lets get those lights turned off! 

[Martin Cassini]

Removing traffic lights - those weapons of mass distraction, danger and delay - is a means to the broader end of making roads safe and fun for everyone to use. The advantage of the name Hereford Reunited over the traffic lights or traffic flow suggestions is that it expresses this core aim. As currently misconceived, the road system is an unpleasant, no-go area for walkers, cyclists and children. By reassigning carriageway space for non-motor traffic, and by removing vexatious controls, we make roads safe and civilised for everyone. Instead of being at daggers drawn in an anti-social environment, road-users rediscover their humanity and make common cause. 

[dippyhippy]

Sounding good so far!

I really don't think we have anything to lose - what we have at present is pretty chaotic.

Martin,out of interest, the other cities that have implemented this shared space idea, do they already have bypasses in place?

I ask this because of the sheer volume that passes through - does the amount of traffic make a marked difference as to how a scheme such as this would work?

Sorry to bombard you with questions on your first post,but I am really interested in this!

 

Oh! And where are my manners??? Welcome to the site!!!

[Steve Major]

I think the name needs to focus on traffic lights out being the main objective together with shared space somehow. I have a few suggestions;

 

Fluid Hereford

Traffic Lights Out (keeping it simple)

Give Up The Stop

 

Just my two pence worth.

 

Great campaign and it is fantastic to have Martin Cassini involved, I have been reading up on the various successful campaigns with great interest. Some strong local campaigners named here so keep up the fight people!