Baptist Church Drinkers ....

[bobby47]

And while Im at it, if you read the 'piece' upon the Hereford Times you'll see that they happen to mention that there are fifteen problem drinkers in the City and all, they say, are British.

Now, why is that? Why mention it? Why tell the reading public that there are fifteen British drinkers who are making your lives a little more difficult than they ought to be.

Think about it. Why mention that. What purpose have they got to emphasise that all the drinkers are British?

Me? I think that its entirely to do with controlling what you think, what you know and what you see. It's entirely about engineering all of us to banish any thoughts of individual thinking and believe completely in what we are told by the media that's rapidly becoming an extension of the arm of The State and any beliefs or thoughts you may have and hold are completely at odds with mainstream society.

If you think differently, see things differently and believe differently you are on the wrong side of any argument and issue. Again. Why even mention it. Could it be possible that this is not the case? Could it be that the Police are inundated with reports of migrants drinking in public places within the City and for a good and noble cause and promote the idea that all is well and everyone is happy, they wish to flatten that observation and let you know that what you see, what you think and what you believe is completely wrong?

Would it have been right to say, 'you've got fifteen local drinkers and they're all European Union migrants'. Of course not. It would have been completely wrong.

Have we got fifteen British boozers in the City who are causing some social unrest?. Of course we have. You'd be a fool to say otherwise but, we now have amongst us a culture of heavy drinking in public places by migrant visitors who, because of cultural reasons think that its completely acceptable. So why do they not mention this?

[George Armstrong]

I've just walked past and yes, there are a huge group of young men and women who are gathered at this location drinking. From what I heard, these young people are not English and they've probably no idea of the laws relating to this issue.

Im guessing that they are a part of the growing number of migrants who've no home, no job and little likelihood of ever getting out of the rut they find themselves in. Perhaps if they understood the impact they were having on the way in which they were being perceived they'd drink somewhere else and abide by the rules.

Why don't the Police, the Council and anyone else who has a vested interest publicise this issue and let these people understand that we don't do this in Hereford. If they don't know and nobody is communicating with them, you can't blame them for getting on the pistol and numbing the pain of life with no job and no prospects of getting one.

Im guessing the Police now turn a blind eye to it all because its quite understandably seen as too much trouble to enforce. Whilst interpreter fees are high and they are having an impact upon public funds, it might help if they were employed to trudge around the City with the Police and tell them. If they don't know and nobody ever tells them then the problem ain't going to go away.

You can't have it all ways, Bobby. This link began by highlighting the problem and you suggested they were migrants. The Police and their Partners are doing something about it (good) and none of them were migrants, as you asserted. I agree that the Streets were never lost, though. On that point, you are completely right. As a result of Operation Castlemain, do the posters on this topic think things are getting better or worse?

[bobby47]

George, Good for you lad. Put me in my place. Mind, don't press those buttons. You'll start others doing it and before to long it'll make me look wan.kie and anyone will be thinking they can give me a slapping whenever they feel like it.

As for our home and City it was safe before, its safe now and when we wake up tomorrow it'll be safe then. As for this operation, its a dog, its a gimmick and all they've done is demonise a small group of people and told you and I they're onto it. It's all a load of boll.ocks and I personally couldn't care less.

Nobody out there drinks ale like I do and anyone who enjoys the feeling of being intoxicated is an ally of mine and someone who I'd like to befriend. My warmest regards George.

[dippyhippy]

I have to say, I have never NOT felt safe, living in Hereford!

 

I merrily wander around the streets where I live at all times of the day and night, often making my way back from visiting friends,or walking the dog by myself......I do not feel intimitaded, or feel that there is any real threat to my personal safety.

 

Most folks making there way home from one of the local pubs, I would probably know by sight anyway!

 

That's not to say I'd feel comfortable say, walking up The Great Western Way alone at 3 in the morning........but I have no worries in walking through town of a night!

 

I think a lot is mindset.

[George Armstrong]

Good points, we'll made, Bobby & Dippy. I just think that this thread asked for something to be done, it's being done, and we now think it's a dog, a gimmick, etc. Maybe a case of 'Piggy in the Middle'?

[dippyhippy]

I think it's a really positive thing George! No sitting on the fence for me!

 

This is one of those situations where not everybody is going to agree that in these cash strapped times, resources should be targeted at this specific group.

 

But, I think this multi pronged approach may make a real difference. I absolutely hope it does, for all concerned.

[ragwert]

All English!! I bed to differ

[stupidfrustration]

It seems to me that the police are in a no win situation here, as we all know resources have been cut back but the police role and focus areas constantly increase.

 

In this case - I got it wrong - I thought there were up to 40 of them, it now appears that there are less than 20!

 

With this in mind, and knowing that these people have a multitude of problems, mental, addiction, probably no work, they need a purpose and direction given along side the police enforcement.

 

The police enforcement is now happening and when I was in town around 3pm on Friday I personally didnt see any on my drive past the Baptist Church or by the Venns Arch area, and whilst these problems are not a quick fix, at least with operation Castlemain, its clearly underway.

 

IF these people can get help, perhaps they can become useful member's of society again.

[bobby47]

When highly intelligent friends of mine, found within these pages start swallowing up this rubbish and thinking for one moment that its all a good thing to start addressing this issue, then Im in trouble. More than that, Im on me bloody own and will continue to be until one of you wakes up and realises its all a bag of rats.

Since time began all areas where people have settled have had the presence of the drunks. They've been in Hereford for years and despite this latest gimmick, bloody Castlemaine, they'll be here long after the multi agency people have thrown their graph in the bin that told you what you all all ready know now. Drinking Aint good. Neither is homelessness and unemployment, and no amount of meetings held by the great and the good will rid you of folk who drink to excess in places the public frequent.

This is the way of things. Always has been and always will be and to throw a pile of money at something you've no chance in changing sums up the desperately hysterical society we've become.

For fifteen British drunks we've created a nonsensical operational name in Castlemaine, which will be changed once this commercial company find that their name is being associated with low level nuisance crime and they decide to sue. We've flagged up all the partner agencies howling, 'another thing for us, the great and the good to sort out'. Weve demonised a tiny number of people who for many reasons are at rock bottom and unless they win the lottery they'll likely to remain there, we're readying ourselves to spend a great deal of money we ain't got. And, for reasons of social engineering, a noble cause and two blind eyes and a fear to say what is blindingly obvious to anyone with eyes and ears we choose to blame ourselves and go out of our way to say its nothing to do with anyone but the British.

Meanwhile, the three shops who continue to sell this illicit booze and the tobacco to the very same fifteen that we've now demonised, well, nothing happens to them. Nothing at all. They make five times more money on the sale of alcohol that's never been subjected to duty than the food they sell because its a cover to what really is going on and we do and say nothing. This area of stealing from our Country is where the big money is. It's huge and the fifteen who enjoy what they are able to buy from these charlatans and chancer's who take advantage of our good nature, well they know one single thing that puts them at an advantage.

They know that we've lost our will to do anything that may make us look unwelcoming and so, for the sake of ease, we blame fifteen Herefordians who didn't do me or you any harm at all.

Leave the fifteen be and deal with the ones who take advantage of our soft underbelly and mock our justice system. Go bother them!

[dippyhippy]

Good Evening Bobby!

 

I fear we will have to agree to disagree on this one!

 

Nothing will ever change for the better - unless people try to change things!! You can't knock folk for doing that!

 

Whilst I share your concerns about certain establishments that sell cheap booze and under the counter tobacco, and endorse your suggestion that this really does need to be dealt with, I cannot in all conscience, agree with other points you have made in your post!

 

This group of people already live on the very fringes of society, to ignore what is happening is really not an option. You may well think me a soft touch - you may well be right - but to me, it doesn't matter if it's one person or one hundred people that need help, they should be given it. I honestly don't think that any of the agencies involved in trying to offer support to tackle this, see themselves as "The great and the good", and I do think it a tad unfair of you to suggest this.

 

I absolutely do agree 100% with you about the operational name.....that is beyond ridiculous! 

 

It would be boring if we sang from the same hymn sheet all the time.....and by the way, a soft touch, I may be, but I am never hysterical!!

 

Warm regards to you!!

[George Armstrong]

I agree, Dippy. I understand that a fair few of these unfortunate people have died already this year alone. It doesn't feel right to write them off and not at least try to help them.

Mahatma Gandhi said "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats it's weakest members."

And who am I to argue with that?

Or maybe it's all just a bag of rats...?

[dippyhippy]

Evening George!

 

I love that quote!

 

I think I have probably said previously, I would never feel comfortable saying that anyone is beyond help.

 

Too often, this group of people are regarded as somebody else's problem. I would say that with the wrong twist of fate, those same problems could be visited upon any one of us, or those we love.

 

None of us have all the answers, but we can at least try to be constructive in the way we try to find them. It's not often Bobby and I cross swords, but it appears on this topic, we cannot agree on the best way forward......doesn't mean I'm any the less fond of him though!!

 

Hope all is well with you, it's great to see you becoming a regular contributor to these pages!

[bobby47]

My God! Bloody invoking the words of Gandhi, who aimed that particular phrase toward a completely different social demographic issue aint the wisest of moves and it certainly ain't going to get me to pack up and clear off home.

Gandhi, when he was starving to death and being carried from village to village certainly didn't have the High Town drunks in mind when he came up with that little slice of pleasure.

And anyway, having some experience of being heavily intoxicated, Im fairly sure that many of The Fifteen are more than happy lounging around all day, talking twaddle and being drunk from dawn to dusk. In fact, if I was one of The Fifteen, the last thing I'd be wanting was for you lot and your holier than thou brethren to come hurtling across the road, wake me from my alcohol induced coma and tell me, 'we are here to save you from yourself.' If my fat face wasn't choking on my own vomit and I was unable to throttle you without dropping the bottle of methylated spirits that the booze smuggler told me was the finest Russian vodka available, I'd tell you all to sod off. Go bother someone else'.

Until they tell me that we've got a huge number of drunks of all nationalities, they're been supplied cheap booze by cheating shop keepers who are taking advantage of our welcoming nature, then I ain't treating anything they or you say with any sense of interest.

[Ubique]

Bobby ,you are not on your own with your thoughts - whilst , I think , we all want to help people who are willing to be helped there is always going to be those who choose , for whatever reason not to want help / assistance / guidance etc. So I agree with most you say.

 

I believe that after the inital publicity the Police and some of the "partner agency's " will move on to another initiative . Drunkeness and anti social behaviour is as old as the oldest profession and will never be solved - it will soon be down the order of priority.

 

I strongly believe that the agency's , Police / Trading Stzndards etc should sort out the shops and other premises selling untaxed/no VAT paid liquor and cigarettes - it's apparent from these comments that the general public know who they are .

 

As an aside , ( May have been already said ) interesting that this Operation was apparently initiated after the Post appeared in the Hereford Voice.

[dippyhippy]

Morning Bobby!

 

You are quite right - they are not all British, but that should make not one jot of difference!

 

Let's say, that one evening you stumble through your front door with your large mixed kebab, and your wife decides that hitting you around the face with her frying pan really isn't having the desired effect, and instead hands you a suitcase and changes the locks!

It doesn't take an awful lot to go wrong in life, to find yourself adding to "The Fifteen" and bumping up their number by one!

 

Would you really prefer not to have help, support and interventions to assist you in getting back on track???

[Ubique]

Just my thought for the day - it's apparent that Police Officers or retired Police Officer read and post here - I am sure that all Posters would like to see a West Mercia Police Press Release on the success or otherwise of this initiative in due course . Will not hold my breath .

[bobby47]

Oh it'll all be a remarkable success dear David. Have no bloody doubts about that. They'll even get one of The Fifteen to stagger up to the Hereford Times reporter crying, ' I was lost but now Im saved. The day bloody Castlemaine came a calling, was the day of my salvation'. Have no doubts that soon, very soon after this bunch of nosey bloody interfering devil dodgers get their teeth into the poor fools, they'll soon be reduced in numbers and become The Fourteen'. 'Halleluzah' he'll cry, ' I was once homeless, drunk and happy and now, after this bunch have shown me the true path, I've become miserable, sober and Im still bloody homeless.'

Not only is it a dog, its a dog with a bent tail, a busted rear offside leg, its got the mange and its fleas bite. It's a bag of rats and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool and a believer in propaganda that tells you all to be worried about something so that they can control your every single thought.

Well they can't control me. Im a free thinker and I'll be damned if I swallow this rubbish that proclaims our streets were once lost to fifteen British pi.ss heads who were responsible for a sack of trouble.

Lets name the fifteen. Who are these people? Lets drag them into High Town or outside the shop where they purchase all their cheap booze and shame them. That's the answer! Name The Fifteen who've created this hysterical reaction to a problem we've always had and always will have. Don't believe anything these people tell you. They'll say anything to make you frightened and worried that you have a problem and only they can solve it. Bloody rubbish!

[stupidfrustration]

Bobby - whats the issue here?

 

There are 15 or so "lost souls" who have all sorts of difficulties in their lives who present to us hard working/tax paying/contributing to the town type folks as a load of pi*% heads that sit outside the Baptist Church, Venns grave yard and now St Peters Church.

 

Every now and then - some of them are begging or shouting at one of "us" hard working people and we get upset.

 

They look unsightly and we dont want their way of life, well, I dont anyway.

 

Ive also read that some of them have died this year, through their drink/drug problems.

 

Now we have an "operation stupid name" and - yes, it is a silly name, but I guess the police have to call it something that appears to be tackling the problem with other agencies involved to try and remove the eyesore of these people and get them back on track.

 

Why is this a problem?

 

The police do something and there is complaining, the police dont do anything and, well there is complaining.

 

All I know is - if 5 people have died, it IS time to look at this group of people and get them some assistance.

 

What I do find strange is that "we" like to look down on those less fortunate that ourselves and give em a dig.

 

I just dont get how we in this fine city have got an attitude like that. What on earth would Rev John Venn make of it all?

[bobby47]

Stupidfrustration, you ask what the issue is here? Truthfully, now. I've no idea. I've just lost two hundred quid on the outcome of the World Cup Final, Im full of ale and it wouldn't surprise me now if one of The Fifteen who are on the list is actually 'me'.

Honestly, I've no idea what Im on about, its of no consequence that I've been gibbering on about God Knows What and frankly, who cares anyway.

In fact, lets go further. If anyone knows anything about anything then it must be clear to anyone with any sense at all that I know nothing about nothing and so, with a tear in either eye, I wish Castelemaine well, let the healing of our fifteen Hereford born British drunks begin and lets applaud the entrepreneurial spirit of the shop proprietors who couldn't give a stuff about my Country, its laws, us, and the Police and Trading Standards who are tasked with completely ignoring their illicit activity.

When I can't carry with me my dearest friend Dippy then Im In trouble and clearly, after reading the threads of this topic that I now completely regret ever contributing toward, its obvious that I don't know what the hell Im going on about.

My warmest regards my good friend.

[dippyhippy]

Afternoon Bobby!

 

You're not on the list - I've checked!!

 

What you need, is a hair of the dog, a nibble on your pork rind, and a couple of stress free hours on The Wye......that'll put a smile back on your face, and a spring back in your step my friend!

 

We've disagreed before, and we shall no doubt disagree again......but the best of Blogging Buddies we shall remain!

[stupidfrustration]

On a personal note - I realise that above is the calmer and more respectable way to disagree on this msg board.

[dippyhippy]

On a personal note - I realise that above is the calmer and more respectable way to disagree on this msg board.

Maybe.......but the world would be a very dull, and very predictable place, if we all reacted in the exact same way!

 

It's good to mix things up a bit sometimes....makes folk think a tad more!

[Roger]

I view dealing with problem elements in public areas as a basic requirement for the local Police. Why is a special operation needed to deal with low level boozing/begging? Should they not be monitoring this anyway? 

[bobby47]

Course, I had a spot of the usual down the Commercial T'other day. I'd just sat down, supped me sixth pint, set up me Ouija board to begin our thrice fortnightly spiritual meeting when all of a sudden I became overwhelmed by an urge. I thought, 'funny. Odd. Why do I feel compelled to drop me trousers and pleasure myself in front of all these good folk'. And then it happened. Tap, tap, tap on the Ouija board. Me hand, the right one to be exact, began tapping out a message from an unearthly being from beyond the grave. I tapped back, 'who the bloody hell is this. Please let me pull me bloody pants up and end this humiliation'. Cause I invoked its wrath didnt I! '

'Its me', he tapped, 'bloody Mahatma Gandhi you fat tw.at'. I tapped him back, 'getting all personal now are we Gandhi. Clear off. At least I can afford a decent suit if clothes. Buggar off. Be gone you restless spirit'. Course, Gandhi being Gandhi, he put me in his place didn't he. Tapped me out one of his quotes didnt he. He tapped, 'in your case fatso, first they ignore, then they mock you, then they fight you and then they kick your head in and you lose!.

[Colin James]

Hereford's smallest festival...

 

I saw this tweet

 

 

This is the full size poster

 

[Bilbobobby]

Good to chat, putting a point of view cross, putting the world to right and taking the opportunity to slag off fellow posters - I think not!!

So back to the actual post.  Its not a Baptist Church issue - its a Castle Green, Duck Pond, Old Burial Ground, Cathedral... so on, so on issue....  These people need some help before they become another statistic of death through drink, drugs and neglect.  5 deaths in the last 12-18 months - see Hereford Times for details (usually hidden on page 76 in a corner).  How many more do we need..

The police do need to step up the mark - which they are doing - as do other agencys, such as Homelessness, Drugs Out Reach and the council.  The police do put a title on things, so what, better that saying 'policing patrol, show a presence, giving reassurance, answering tourist questions and dealing with alcohol anti social behaviour'  a short title gives focus.

Things are getting better - its a fact.

Vocal minority - one or two - are being dealt with by the police in a robust positive way.

Others seem to be getting the message.  Long may it last!

So what next - sort out the government reshuffle, problems in the middle east, repair my damaged leg (getting old) - I don't think so, but I know that if we all deal with the minority of persistant trouble makers, promote the city, we may all realise that despite all these whoe's we might start to enjoy the sunshine across our glorious county..

[dippyhippy]

Walked past The Baptist Church today....and saw Herefords' Smallest Festival in full swing!

 

I didn't have time to stop for a coffee unfortunately, but it all looked very vibrant, very busy and very welcoming!

 

Hope it's been a success!

[Roger]

Its not a Baptist Church issue - its a Castle Green, Duck Pond, Old Burial Ground, Cathedral... so on, so on issue....  These people need some help.

 

Correct. It's a widespread issue ... But how much help do you issue to someone who is a lost cause? Ross Richards in the internet feed today for spreading excrement around the cell after some ludicrous incident at Asda. He's been a fixture around here for years. Other than when he was somewhere else. Are people like him draining the adult care budget? I don't know the answers. All seems a bit pear shaped to me ... 

[Ubique]

Roger , I think that you may have given a reason why the Police are reluction to arrests these 15 , or just one of them. The Officers know that if they arrest them the Custody Sgt will not be too pleased for a number of reasons , if the arrested person decorates his cell similar to the example from Roger it means that the cell is out of action until it's deep cleaned . The mode of transport may also need deep cleaning . If there is a shortage of cells because one or more are out of action prisoners will have to be transported to other Custody Suites taking at least two Officers away from Hereford for a few hours.. The prisoner will have to be strip searched - not a pleasant , but necessary task .

[Bilbobobby]

I can assure you that the police are not reluctant to make arrests - what they need is the evidence and the 'necessity test' before they feel the collar and take them into custody. I will put my head up and say I am a retired police officer who did most of my service working shifts and response in this county and I am not too far detached from the reality of the issues to second guess what is happening.

The street drinkers are part of todays society - earlier this morning I saw 3 of the usual suspects sat on the raised flower bed wall near to St Peters Church = early morning free breakfast = no issues with them at this time, plus no alcohol visible. Todays 'buried' articale in the Hereford Times explains the police approach, unfortunately the press have used the headline of 'retaking the streets', get real this is not down town Basra... A minor problem that has developed into a local community issue is being dealt with through a mult i agency approach.  There will be a number who don't want and will not comply.  Tough.  They will either behave, leave the city or eventually go to prison. 

The proof will be in the pudding, measure the success of the police approach through your own observations, give it time and then post an honest view whether you are feeling safe in the city

Lastly google the Police Crime and Anti Social Behaviour act (or something like that) that is being introduced in October this year - this will stream line ASB systems and will allow a fast track approach to be applied