paulinehodges Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 I joined this forum because I am interested in what is going on in Herefordshire. I have been somewhat dismayed at the personal attacks that go on, so much so that it has put me off contributing. I am now horrified to see my name in print as being a possible perpetrator of some heinous crime of " down voting posts" I don't even know what this means let alone how to do it. I would hope the administrator would clamp down on this sort of behaviour. It does nothing to improve the art of good debate! Quote
twowheelsgood Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 Its not a crime - the facility is there, but it serves no point, in my view, save to antagonise or intimidate. I do think Colin should reconsider its inclusion. Quote
Alex Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 The idea of the vote on the right gives an indication of what others think about what a member has written, we are all entitled to our opinion and it may not always be the same as yours. I have seen this on many other forums so this is nothing new. Quote
dippyhippy Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 Hi Pauline! You are not alone...I didn't know about this when I joined,Biomech had to point it out to me! I don't know if you read the HT comments,but the votes are the thumb up \ down equivalent!! Don't let this put you off posting,its always lovely to hear new posters points of view we don't always agree,but hey ho,that's life,and things are usually posted with good humour! Take care,and I look forward to reading your opinions! Quote
bobby47 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 Hello Pauline. I recently plummeted on the Hereford Times to minus bloody thirty nine. That's a record. That'll take some beating. Imagine, thirty nine people out there who either hate me or hate whatever codswallop I've transmitted. Now, how do I deal with this open rejection of me and the pigswill I shovel out? I simply ignore it Pauline. That's the way to deal with it. I take no notice at all. It doesn't bother me. Mind, in my darker moments of contemplation,when it does bloody bother me, then I pray to the God that slew Kane and Abel that their bloody fingers drop off and they spill their rotten coffee all over their keyboard. Quote
Colin James Posted February 24, 2014 Report Posted February 24, 2014 Hello Pauline. I recently plummeted on the Hereford Times to minus bloody thirty nine. That's a record. That'll take some beating. Imagine, thirty nine people out there who either hate me or hate whatever codswallop I've transmitted. Now, how do I deal with this open rejection of me and the pigswill I shovel out? I simply ignore it Pauline. That's the way to deal with it. I take no notice at all. It doesn't bother me. Mind, in my darker moments of contemplation,when it does bloody bother me, then I pray to the God that slew Kane and Abel that their bloody fingers drop off and they spill their rotten coffee all over their keyboard. Well currently you have a reputation of +130 bobby47 which is classed as Superb. Pauline to be fair, you only joined a few weeks ago and this is your one and only post thus far, you have received a positive vote too because you have 1 reputation point, so I am a little confused as to why this feature is bothering you if I am honest? You are a valued member here and you have the same options as every other member. The reputation feature has several benefits to me as the admin because I can set parameters. The reputation system lets users rate other users based on their actions and posts. All ratings are tallied to give every user a total reputation, which can be displayed in their profiles. A user receives or loses points when other users vote up or down the content they have submitted to our community. Forum posts, gallery images, blog posts, etc will all have +/- buttons our your members can use to vote on the associated content. The forum includes filters to view or hide posts based on the number of points that post has received. So I can choose to hide all posts that fall below -25, or any other value that I set. This system works much like the ignore user feature, the post will be hidden with an option to view it anyway. It is also possible to set an upper threshold that will highlight posts that have more than X amount of points. The system has several configuration options as well. I can choose to allow members to only give positive votes, or only negative votes, or both positive and negative votes (which is how it is currently set). I can choose at what level content becomes 'highlighted', and can exclude specific groups from the reputation system, choose if the reputation is displayed on profiles. I can also limit the number of positive and negative votes that a user group is allowed to give in a 24 hour period. Personally, I believe it gives a true reflection of how others honestly feel about your content and I rarely edit topics and posts unless I really need too. Original topic here I could just turn this feature completely off or just allow a like button where members who have liked a post are listed but I am not sure that this will give a totally true reflection, allowing people to vote anonymously takes that barrier away. Quote
Biomech Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Just to be clear, the problem I have is the abuse of the voting system, when someone posts "I went to town today, there were roadworks" and it gets down voted. That's not disagreeing with an opinion or showing anti support, that's an observed fact, down voting statements of fact or observation is abuse and it's something that we had seen on the HT website as a way for certain people to discredit posters that they didn't like. If two people make a comment, one with -300 votes and one with +200 votes, it adds a degree of credibility to the poster so that you can make an informed opinion for yourself. By willfully abusing the system, you do all members and visitors an injustice by misrepresenting the authors of the posts. Quote
paulinehodges Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Posted February 25, 2014 Biomech .. your frustration appears to be the fact that people use the votes to discredit people they don't like rather than posts they don't like. My point exactly ... the fact people seem to use this forum to insult each other as well as have positive debates on issues. But then you go on to exacerbate the problem by actually naming ME as someone you personally consider is a perpetrator of down voting. Many of you seem to know each other so perhaps you feel this is ok. Colin ..... I have no concerns about the voting system. It is similar to that in many social networks I contribute to. My post was objecting to someone naming me personally as being a suspect in down voting. I do not find this acceptable. Quote
Colin James Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Biomech .. your frustration appears to be the fact that people use the votes to discredit people they don't like rather than posts they don't like. My point exactly ... the fact people seem to use this forum to insult each other as well as have positive debates on issues. But then you go on to exacerbate the problem by actually naming ME as someone you personally consider is a perpetrator of down voting. Many of you seem to know each other so perhaps you feel this is ok. Colin ..... I have no concerns about the voting system. It is similar to that in many social networks I contribute to. My post was objecting to someone naming me personally as being a suspect in down voting. I do not find this acceptable. Pauline, I have obviously missed something here, can you show me where you have been named or in which post because that is unacceptable. Quote
Biomech Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 I can address this - and I'll come back to reply to the rest in a bit. There was an unwarranted down voting spree in a thread. I posted a list of potential suspects, this is where Pauline was one of the people named. However! I said that it was one of the following and posted a list of the only people who had visited the thread minus the victims of the down votes. The only people who could have downvoted where the people listed, the likely candidates were the several new members. I didn't, however, specifically blame Pauline - she was merely a suspect based on pure deductive logic. You can't dislike that post or downvote it as it was based on fact, only the people listed could have downvoted at that time. It would be like saying Hitler ordered the killing of Jews and people saying "no he didn't" I think you've just taken it too personally Pauline Quote
Colin James Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Just to be clear, the problem I have is the abuse of the voting system, when someone posts "I went to town today, there were roadworks" and it gets down voted. That's not disagreeing with an opinion or showing anti support, that's an observed fact, down voting statements of fact or observation is abuse and it's something that we had seen on the HT website as a way for certain people to discredit posters that they didn't like. If two people make a comment, one with -300 votes and one with +200 votes, it adds a degree of credibility to the poster so that you can make an informed opinion for yourself. By willfully abusing the system, you do all members and visitors an injustice by misrepresenting the authors of the posts. Unfortunately, you will get this I guess from certain members which is quite sad really, ultimately I can turn this feature off or just allow the LIKE feature but I am not sure that will then give a true reflection as I have previously said. I can also hide from view the totals from members profiles Quote
Bill Thomas Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 I can address this - and I'll come back to reply to the rest in a bit. There was an unwarranted down voting spree in a thread. I posted a list of potential suspects, this is where Pauline was one of the people named. However! I said that it was one of the following and posted a list of the only people who had visited the thread minus the victims of the down votes. The only people who could have downvoted where the people listed, the likely candidates were the several new members. I didn't, however, specifically blame Pauline - she was merely a suspect based on pure deductive logic. You can't dislike that post or downvote it as it was based on fact, only the people listed could have downvoted at that time. It would be like saying Hitler ordered the killing of Jews and people saying "no he didn't" I think you've just taken it too personally Pauline I personally like the voting of threads up/down but I do think Pauline is taking this slightly personally which I am sure was not the intention when they included this feature within the system when it was written. Is there a way that members can see who voted and how they voted or is that just an admin feature perhaps? Quote
Roger Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Anyone who uses Facebook will be aware that there is a feature to 'like' a post but no feature to 'unlike' a post. I prefer both options to be available (as on here) as it enhances debate. However, as has previously been stated, it can be used in a random & pointless fashion on occasion. Down voting a post that merely states a 'fact' (like I saw X, Y, or Z happening when I went into town today) is a waste of time. Other than, I suppose, it indicates that the voter would have preferred that the poster had never mentioned the fact they were commenting on ... Quote
Bill Thomas Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Colin this is now totally off topic is there a way that you can make this discussion a discussion of it's own because we have all now completely sabotaged ragwert's original topic. Quote
Colin James Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Colin this is now totally off topic is there a way that you can make this discussion a discussion of it's own because we have all now completely sabotaged ragwert's original topic. Bill I had the exact same thoughts so I have split now these comments away from ragwert's original Scoot topic and created this individual topic as this was unfair to ragwert and we had taken over his discussion. Quote
Biomech Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Biomech .. your frustration appears to be the fact that people use the votes to discredit people they don't like rather than posts they don't like. My point exactly ... Yes, absolutely. Well, people and topics. For example, a .... OLM partner/director downvoting every post that addresses a concern about the OLM regardless of content the fact people seem to use this forum to insult each other as well as have positive debates on issues. No. I haven't seen this, I haven't seen anyone personally insult another member on here to be fair. But then you go on to exacerbate the problem by actually naming ME as someone you personally consider is a perpetrator of down voting. No, this isn't true. I included you as a suspect based simply on the fact that you were one of the only people who were active in that particular thread. Therefore, it could only have been one of the people I listed - of which you were one of several. Many of you seem to know each other so perhaps you feel this is ok. Not always ;) Colin ..... I have no concerns about the voting system. It is similar to that in many social networks I contribute to. I would rather people commented on why they disagree, that's how discussion happens. Only recently Ragwert and myself were discussing how he hasn't provided a source after stating that Boots would be moving to the OLM. I didn't once down vote his posts, I enquired about them. Likewise I don't believe he downvoted my differing opinion. My post was objecting to someone naming me personally as being a suspect in down voting. I do not find this acceptable. Do you find it acceptable now that I have given you the reason? Let's not forget, being a suspect isn't a declaration of guilt. Quote
Biomech Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Bill I had the exact same thoughts so I have split now these comments away from ragwert's original Scoot topic and created this individual topic as this was unfair to ragwert and we had taken over his discussion. Colin, I support your decision with an upvote lol :P Quote
magicroundabout Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Hi paulinehodges, Just wanted to say hello and that we are made very welcome on Hereford Voice. I hope you will continue posting and not let this misunderstanding put you off making comments. There was a "Voice" January get together but generally it doesn't appear to me that posters know each other outside of posting. Some people have very strong opinions and are entitled to them (makes an interesting read). I read a couple of posts which made personal attacks on an individual poster which didn't appear to bother that person. Usually, just shows the "attacker" up as a bit of an eejit! The voting button is innocuous here. On Hereford Times the voting button can be fiddled and is a bit of fun!! Bobby47 earlier on this thread said he was voted down online with the Hereford Times "comments" to minus 39. I voted positive at least twice on that post and others had also voted positively before the jokey negative votes so I'd estimate in total he was voted down around minus 50 votes!!! *mag* Quote
Roger Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 The voting button is innocuous here. On Hereford Times the voting button can be fiddled and is a bit of fun!! Bobby47 earlier on this thread said he was voted down online with the Hereford Times "comments" to minus 39. I voted positive at least twice on that post and others had also voted positively before the jokey negative votes so I'd estimate in total he was voted down around minus 50 votes!!! *mag* Yeah ... You can fiddle the vote on the HT website with an absolute certainty! I am waiting for the Regional circulation (ABC's) for that publication which are due imminently .... I think it will be the first one since the price went up from 80p to £1.20 ... Quote
magicroundabout Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Oh dear! Hope the sales are not too low - after all we love our newspaper really ( or to lambast it). Would rather have those local reporters employed than not. Even Fiona! Quote
dippyhippy Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 How on earth can the vote be fiddled on HT ??? I thought it was one vote and that was it! What I disagree with mostly on there,is that anybody and everybody can vote. At least on here you have to be a member,which means the chances are you have taken the time at some point, to join in with a discucussion. With the HT, a miserable little thumb appears, mostly from folk who can't be bothered to make a contribution! Grrr! That does make me cross! If you have a point to make - type it! Quote
Roger Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 How on earth can the vote be fiddled on HT ??? I thought it was one vote and that was it! What I disagree with mostly on there,is that anybody and everybody can vote. At least on here you have to be a member,which means the chances are you have taken the time at some point, to join in with a discucussion. With the HT, a miserable little thumb appears, mostly from folk who can't be bothered to make a contribution! Grrr! That does make me cross! If you have a point to make - type it! If you have desktop, ipad and phone you can instantly record 3 votes if you are so inclined .... that's one way I suppose ... Quote
Alex Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 To be honest I do not know anyone on here. I met Colin and Bill at the recent meeting but other than that I have not met anyone else from HV. Looking forward to the summer curry Quote
Colin James Posted February 25, 2014 Report Posted February 25, 2014 Voting is limited to allow 10 x positive votes and ONLY 3 negative votes in any 24 hour period here. Below is a image of what I can do within the admin section. I can also turn on a feature that allows members to view who voted and how they voted but I think turning that on may cause more hassle that it's worth, that said, as the Administrator I can view who voted. Finally, unlike what I am reading about the HT you can't fiddle the voting on here. Quote
Roger Posted February 26, 2014 Report Posted February 26, 2014 I've reached my voting limit. I tried to leave a constructive vote but the system denied this. Despite having not voted at all today ... But I don't know at what point the 24 hr. timer kicked in ... :-S Quote
Biomech Posted February 26, 2014 Report Posted February 26, 2014 I bet if you enabled "can view" people would think twice about down voting lol :P Can't wait for the HT figures, I'd suggest that they would be lower and then the blame laid solely on the Internet. Quote
dippyhippy Posted February 26, 2014 Report Posted February 26, 2014 Have to say though, when you look at a thread of comments, the positive votes seem to far outweigh the negative ones, so that's a pretty good indication that folk don't just down vote willy nilly as a rule! As Colin has said, if he saw a pattern of mis-use he would put a stop to it! (Unlike the HT moderator....who many of us suspect has his own agenda!!) Quote
dippyhippy Posted February 26, 2014 Report Posted February 26, 2014 Oh! Forgot what I was originally going to say! Blimey, must be having a senior moment! Roger, what figures are these out of interest? The HT publish weekly figures in the printed copy.....are the ones you speak of different? This weeks figures - 1.Weekly circulation - 30,612. 2.Readers every week - 83,453. 3.Unique users at herefordtimes.com - 110,280. They are usually to be found underneath the Opinion piece in the Letters section....page 31 this week!!! Quote
Biomech Posted February 26, 2014 Report Posted February 26, 2014 Dippy, that was me lol, I couldn't resist. But I upvoted the second post to nullify the change on your account :) Quote
dippyhippy Posted February 26, 2014 Report Posted February 26, 2014 I love your sense of humour Biomech - absolutely no offence taken!! A quick look at HT today, shows just 30 comments on line.....pretty poor!! At this rate they won't need the services of a moderator!! Quote
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