Saving The Working Boys Home *UPDATE*

[Aylestone Voice]

Of course the answer is "yes". I had guessed that.

So the fight is effectively over. All this talk of a public meeting is fine but there will be no point raising the question of a different use other than a fire station. Don't let Cllr Hubbard raise your expectations that there can be a serious debate now about keeping the building because the meeting will be all about the fire station on a clear site.The discussion moves on to what a fire station would look like.

I am not convinced that a new building is required. The existing building houses fire engines - it is a garage. There is accommodation above - surely that could be brought up to standard. What else is required? But that does not matter. The politicians have decided that we are to have a new fire station on Bath Street. The only issue is what it looks like. As 2WG implies it will be designed by computer - a box for a garage, some offices and a fancy roof.

I smell politics here

[John Harrington]

Aylestone Voice, like you, I notice a change in the narrative from saving the buildings to 'making their sacrifice' count. I too smell politics. All I can urge the good dippy and Cambo and others who are fed up of a Council who tell us what is good for us and why it is best for us, is keep fighting. I would demand the report which prompted the move to look at a new site so that it can be properly scrutinized. And I would approach the Scrutiny committee asap to ask them to review the cabinet member decision, Liz Harvey will soon put a hot poker up from when Cllr Brammer speaks. Also, do not exclude the possibility of a legal challenge. Yes it will cost but if you care about John Venn and his legacy and feel helpless because your council is failing you, it will be worth the cost. Nothing that is worth doing is easy but done together the burden is made easier.

[Aylestone Voice]

I guess a legal challenge would be on the basis of the Council not properly securing the best financial return when disposing of an asset?

[John Harrington]

Yes, that would be one angle combined with the legality of the Cabinet disposing of public assets without a genuine consultation process.

The problem with a lot of decisions made by this cabinet is that they are made in isolation and with a baffling degree of secrecy. If they are not challenged at some point they become 'legitimate' by default. I know an exceptionally good lawyer if dippy and gang want his details please PM me.

[Mark Hubbard]

Apologies for not answering the Scrutiny question - which you are all right is yes.  Any key decision once made can be called in, but only on very narrow grounds as stated in the constitution: 

 

4.5.16.5 Call-in should only be used in exceptional circumstances including but not limited to; 

 

a where there is evidence which suggests that issues have not been handled in accordance with the decision-making principles set out in this Constitution 

b where a key decision has been taken of which was notice was not given in accordance with the requirements in the Access to Information Rules (Part 4 Section 2), and is not subject to the urgency procedures set out in this Constitution; or 

c where a decision is outside the Budget and Policy Framework. 

 

All along the way we have needed something to hang the argument on - if the Heritage Impact Assessment had given cause for concern or had English Heritage listed the building or had the Council not adhered to its own rules on decision making - something to make the issue stick. BUT the process has been followed correctly (we may not agree with the process, but that is not the issue here), the heritage impact assessment said very clearly that Bath St was not worth saving and English Heritage agreed with this assessment. Any legal challenge would take all of this into account and it isn't looking hopeful.

 

Sorry guys, I've spent the last 7 years being tied in knots by the system, a large part of which I don't agree with, but you cannot change it from the outside - "in it to win it", as they say. And there are many battles along the way that you don't win and have to be content with "having an influence" only.

 

Just trying to be realistic........

[twowheelsgood]

But wasn't the heritage impact assessment prepared by the council? Hardly independent or impartial.

[Mark Hubbard]

Have just read Jean O'Donnell's letter to the Times and I cannot disagree with what she says. Our city would be a better place if we valued and planned for our historic buildings in the way she describes. 

[Aylestone Voice]

Mark.

Please ask the Council's Historic Buildings Officer if the building has architectural or historic merit. It may not be worthy of being a Listed Building but it certainly has qualities that add to the character of the Conservation Area.

That said even it has no merit and can be demolished I certainly feel that the best use of the site is for housing and not a fire station. Where is the best value for us taxpayers when the site is disposed I assume for nothing?

Of course you may be privy to information we are not! (even if is marked confidential - sorry!!!!)

[John Harrington]

Aylestone Voice, naughty boy!

 

Mark, thanks for the detailed explanation, much appreciated. I think it could be argued that both points A and B have been breached in this case. The guidelines/regs for calling in Scrutiny you give, are the purely relating to Herefordshire Council or are you quoting from a national code.

 

My point being that Scrutiny may be restricted to action only in certain circumstances but legal action would be based on broad principles which the Council would have to be prepared to fight.  

[John Harrington]

P.S. Mark, how does a constituent go about requesting for Scrutiny to be called in? The decision to swap the land has been made so presumably Scrutiny can be called in at anytime to consider whether it should proceed?  

[Cambo]

Hi everyone sorry for being late been stuck in a place with no bloody signal!!!!!

Anyway my news is this had a txt of cllr bramer

Dear Mr Hayes

Thank you for your letter regarding the land behind the Odeon cinema - delivered to various councillors yesterday.

The land in question is not surplus to requirements but your views are now well known.

The decision in respect of the Bath Street site is due to be taken on Monday.

 

Councillor H Bramer

Cabinet Member - Contracts and Assets

 

Althought he says that the bus station is not surplus to requirements it will be in 2 years so why can't it be brought forward 2years for a new fire station?? Don't make sense not to do so!!!

[Cambo]

I know it will be surplus to requirement in 2years as I've got an email from the transport department saying so but I think it should be brought forward NOW!!! As its not really a proper bus station!

[Ubique]

For what it's worth - I have been told that there is a plan ( some say cunning plan ) which suggests that County Bus Station may well be converted into a multi storey car park . The suggestion is that visitors to the hospital would rather pay the council to use this car park rather than pay the high charge to use the hospital car park .i do accept fully that a multi storey car park will cost money.

[Cambo]

Thanks ubique that's very interesting. HC have wot I would describe as car park madness & they need to be cured of this sickness so I say sod the car park a fire station is more important & particularly it being in the right place!!!

[dippyhippy]

What a day!

Only just got in from work and I see there is a lot to catch up on!

 

I have a feeling we may have to convene an extraordinary meeting of The Mendacious Oddities in order to plan our next move!

 

This is most definitely not over yet my friends!

[dippyhippy]

P.S. Mark, how does a constituent go about requesting for Scrutiny to be called in? The decision to swap the land has been made so presumably Scrutiny can be called in at anytime to consider whether it should proceed?

 

Hi John, glad you have asked this, it was going to be my question!

Time is obviously pressing, so maybe we'll get an answer soon......??!

[Cambo]

Hello dippy how are you? Did you see cllr bramer sent me a txt message?

[dippyhippy]

I did indeed Cambo!

Two years is nothing, in the scheme of things. This is just an excuse.

 

I bet that they never, for one minute, thought there would be this amount of opposition.

 

I absolutely respect what Mark says about picking battles, but I don't think this one is quite over just yet!

[Cambo]

No your right dippy it is not over yet I don't hear the fat lady singing?! Would you like to see my reply to Harry?

[dippyhippy]

Yes please, Cambo!

[Cambo]

Ok dippy here it is…

 

Well thank you for responding to me councillor!

Yes I know the land behind the Odeon is not surplus to requirements yet, but it will be in 2 years time! as that will be the case I cannot see why it is not possible to bring it forward 2 years? especially as it would be to the city's greater benefit in doing so!

Because even if the boys home was not there on bath street, it still would not be the correct place to locate a new fire station.

 

Ps you cannot say the bus station is a proper bus station either because it is not?!

Regards Michael Hayes

[dippyhippy]

Well done, Cambo!

 

I take it the lines of communication were cut at this point...??

[Cambo]

Well I don't know yet as I've had no signal all day but Harry sent his txt this morning so my reply back was somewhat later…but having said that its an answer he's going to have to really think about before he does reply & one that he will have to answer sooner or later because I will go to his house if I have to & ask him face to face for an answer…as my democratic right to do so of course!!!…& besides its only polite for him to answer as I've asked the question?!

[dippyhippy]

Yes, its here http://tinyurl.com/pygamjv with one from Jean O'Donnell as well

Not quite the take on the situation that I had hoped for.....

 

Thanks for the link, Two Wheels.

[dippyhippy]

Cambo, I would love to be hiding in the shrubbery whilst you are banging on Cllr Bramers door, demanding an answer!

 

I am away to the pub....purely medicinal , you understand, but very necessary after the week I've had!

[Cambo]

No worries dippy have one for me

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

Morning all!  It's a glorious day - and don't we need some sunshine to uplift our spirits after last week's farces and fiascos. 

 

Still nil desperandum.  Here's a little story to make you chuckle over your Cocopops.

 

Farmer worker goes to see his local gp.  "'oive bin 'avin' terrible trouble with the old posterior, doc."

 

"Oh really?  What seems to be the trouble, Jethrow?"

 

"Missus reckons its oither exzema or piles."

 

"Oh dear.  I'd better take a look.  Drop your trousers, please."

 

After some minutes examination and with Jethrow re-trousered, the doctor balances his half-moon specs on the tip of his nose, to give the diagnosis. 

 

"Nothing to worry about there, Jethrow.  You've just got a dose of the Jesse Normans."

 

"What's that, doc?"

 

"Been sitting on too many fences!"

[dippyhippy]

Evening Grid Knocker!

 

It HAS been a glorious day! Hay on Wye looks even more lovely in the sunshine, and the beer garden at The Blue Boar, is a proper little sun trap - what a great way to while away a Sunday afternoon!

 

Your post did make me chuckle....you are a spinner of yarns!!

[Ubique]

From the HT , News Flash at 4pm today

 

THE land swap deal that gets Hereford a new fire station on the site of Herefordshire Council’s Bath Street offices has been done.

 

This afternoon (Mon), the council confirmed that Councillor Harry Bramer, cabinet member for contracts and assets, has approved the deal as recommended – subject to any scrutiny call-in.

[Roger]

Link to the HT story