Saving The Working Boys Home *UPDATE*

[Cambo]

Great work john! Not read through it all yet

But this bit was interesting

[Cambo]

Site 4a does not mention anything about demolition work so it cannot be the old boys home?

Last week @ HWFRS drop in I was talking with Sean Bailey the chief fire officer in Hereford & he said that they had looked @ the old sun valley site the one that burned down is this the mystery site 4a???

[Cambo]

8 bay fire station is a requirement? I suppose it was back in 2010 when this report was done? before the cuts now they can't afford a station that size! So has the requirement changed now to a 4 bay station?

[Cambo]

Another thing is if they'd identify the sites back in 2010 the council must have seen the report back then? so why have they fail to comply with the needs of HWFRS in there location for a new station on any of the sites suggested in the report?

[dippyhippy]

8 bay fire station is a requirement? I suppose it was back in 2010 when this report was done? before the cuts now they can't afford a station that size! So has the requirement changed now to a 4 bay station?

Two Wheels posted a response to this point over on the HT thread about the plans being shown.

Definitely have a read of it, and if possible, could you post a link to this HT story, so that we have all the information contained within this thread???

 

I shall thank you in advance for your help and kindness!!

[Cambo]

Thanks dippy I have read it & twowheelsgood explains why only 4 doors but not sure how to link page? Poss megilleland could link page or another kind poster be of some assistance?

[John Harrington]

Razor eyes Cambo, I didn't notice the mention of the 4b site having 'prior use as a bus station'. I wonder if they mean the old depot in Friar St or even the hub at Tesco? More likely they do mean the bus station off Commercial Rd. In which case that site is still an ideal site but only the timing is slightly out, due to the slow development, which means the bus station is not free yet as a new hub has not been built down by the railway station or the new development. So, as the report states the current building is not dangerous and the structure is sound why not put the new station on hold for a couple of more years. Time for our councillors to refer this for scrutiny.

[twowheelsgood]

Razor eyes Cambo, I didn't notice the mention of the 4b site having 'prior use as a bus station'. I wonder if they mean the old depot in Friar St or even the hub at Tesco? More likely they do mean the bus station off Commercial Rd. In which case that site is still an ideal site but only the timing is slightly out, due to the slow development, which means the bus station is not free yet as a new hub has not been built down by the railway station or the new development. So, as the report states the current building is not dangerous and the structure is sound why not put the new station on hold for a couple of more years. Time for our councillors to refer this for scrutiny.

 

At the public exhibition of the proposals I specifically asked one of the civilian firemen if there was a better site coming available in say two years time, would they wait for it? Yes, I was told, without hesitation. I was told this deal had been put together by Hereford Futures and was given the strong impression it wasn't really what they wanted. If the Council really want to develop a site for housing, just use the Bath St site for goodness sake - they'll get far more units on that. THAT is best value.

 

On the right hand side of the pages is the 'againsts' - several options mention a potential issue with not being able to sell the present site in a timely manner. I suspect Futiles exploited this to push them into this deal. However, in my experience, you can sell anything if the price is right.

[twowheelsgood]

Plans unveiled for new Hereford fire station - HT article here 

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/11217002.Plans_unveiled_for_new_Hereford_fire_station/?ref=mc

[dippyhippy]

Cheers Two Wheels!

 

So here we have it then!

 

The fire service are prepared to wait for a better site.

The bus station is a better site.

The bus station site will be surplus to requirements in two years.

 

Bath Street could be redeveloped for much needed housing, as could potentially the fire station site.

 

When put in its simplest form - and I know I am a simple soul - the outcome of this should be achievable, and blindingly obvious to everyone!

[Aylestone Voice]

Despite what they might have said, or not, the fire brigade will proceed with their planning application for this site. As I have said elsewhere when that happens arguments that there are better sites elsewhere and/or they will be prepared to wait just will not be relevant. The application will be determined on its own qualities - is it suitable development for this site not that there is a better site somewhere else

[twowheelsgood]

Just to muddy the waters further, the police station is, apparently, knackered/not fit for purpose/about to collapse etc and the £8.1m they have just spent on that little lean-to was a stop gap to keep the human rights ninnies at bay. Their Barton Road lease expires at the end of this year and they face a major space issue back at Bath Street  because of that. So, they may be on the move as well. Another site for housing or hey, a another option for the fire station!

 

Reading the report provided by Colin's anonymous contact, it is clear that the Police have been systematically shafted by the Council over a 10 year period in their search for a new site and, further 'Over this period the Council and Hereford Futures have come forward with various potential site options (details provided in the section immediately below), but it has transpired that none of these options provide credible and deliverable solutions to WMP’s requirements'.

 

Sadly it would appear that both Fire and Police have been planning a move for 10 years or more (the Police since 2001, when they were offered the cattle market site) and both have been blocked by the Council/Futures, to the point where they now have to do something, anything, to avoid falling foul of some legislation or other. The whole ESG debacle has well and truly blighted and done for this City.

[dippyhippy]

Its a ridiculous situation. This ties in with what the ambulance service said, when some years ago , all three emergency services were looking at creating an "emergency hub."

As I have posted previously, one location looked at then was up by where B and Q is now.

If they have been thwarted at every turn, its little surprise we find ourselves in this sorry situation.

[Cambo]

It's a scandal that's for sure but then everything this council seems to do is? There certainly of no help to the emergency services which is appalling in itself!…maybe a public inquiry should be held into there treatment by the council?

[dippyhippy]

They bend over backwards for multi national companies.....giving away valuable land and all sorts of shenanigans.

Yet when it comes to finding suitable locations for, it seems, all three emergency services, they make life as difficult as possible.

 

It's not right.

[megilleland]

Its a ridiculous situation. This ties in with what the ambulance service said, when some years ago , all three emergency services were looking at creating an "emergency hub."

As I have posted previously, one location looked at then was up by where B and Q is now.

If they have been thwarted at every turn, its little surprise we find ourselves in this sorry situation.

 

Going back in time it is amazing that there was talk of some sense in these HF documents about relocating some infrastructure into the ESG. And now we have arrived at some scheme devised behind closed doors for no stated reasons which appear to benefit the interests of a few individuals.

 

Summary of the Masterplan

2.71 Potential occupiers of the ofï¬ce element will include the relocated Hereford Centre and modern Library for Herefordshire Council, a Police Point for West Mercia Police and ofï¬ce accommodation for a number of public and private organisations which could, if grouped together, beneï¬t considerably from shared space and facilities.

 

2.132 The village contains two locations identiï¬ed as being suitable for major space uses. The ï¬rst of these, north of the link road, is allocated for development of a new Divisional HQ building by West Mercia Police and could also accommodate other commercial uses. The second lies to the north and east of the football ground, a potential site for Higher Education or major ofï¬ce use. These locations for major space uses are complementary to the UDP policies for the area and are identiï¬ed to enable suitable opportunities for new and relocating users.

 

In Hereford Futures Business Plan 2012 - 2015:

 

4. Public Services, Infrastructure and Facilities 

 

West Mercia Police 

West Mercia Police Authority (WMPA) have identified a strategic need for a new Territorial Police Headquarters (TPHQ) in Hereford, which will enable them to both meet their changing accommodation requirements, and ensure that they are able to properly respond to the anticipated policing needs of both the County, and the City.

 

At present, they are operating from two principal locations in the city; one being the existing HQ on Bath Street, the other is temporary rented accommodation on Barton Road.

 

For operational reasons WMPA wish to consolidate onto one site, however there is insufficient room at Bath Street for any further expansion, and they are now seeking suitable sites on which to build a new TPHQ sometime in the next 10 years. 

 

The feasibility of siting a new TPHQ on land in the ownership of WMPA, within the proposed Urban Village is being actively investigated by WMPA with the support of Futures and the Council. 

 

Futures’ role in the project will be to advise Herefordshire Council on how to secure best value and also ensure that the proposals by WPMA are compatible with the delivery of the Urban Village. 

 

Supersurgery 

The ‘Hereford City Primary Care Centre’ will comprise a purpose-built medical centre which will combine within a single site a number of existing city centre medical practices. The new medical centre will provide personal services that are tailored to the specific health and social care needs of individuals by giving more control to service users. This project has been an ambition of the Primary Care Trust for many years, and the development of the Urban Village provides an opportunity to realise delivery.

 

Working in partnership with NHS Herefordshire, Hereford Futures will help to identify and promote potentially suitable sites for the new medical centre, and advise on how to secure best value. 

 

Fire Services HQ

Just as with the project above, provision of a new HQ for the Fire Service has been a long held ambition. Given the condition of their existing building, the need to secure replacement accommodation has become more presing, and the Service is actively searchng for suitable sites. The company's role (Hereford Futures) will be to lead negotiations with the Service and support delivery of the new HQ if they choose to develop on one of the opportunity sites.

 

So who has being putting a spoke in the initial plans?

[Cambo]

No it's not right dippy by a long shot! Also the site list as site 4a I now strongly believe is the old sun valley site which used to be the Corbett block? as this site has been cleared of buildings for a number of years now! The other thing is if it is there first choice? Wouldn't if be further away than 2 mins from high town?

[megilleland]

A UNITED EMERGENCY SERVICE 2012

GLA CONSERVATIVES

GREATER LONDON AUTHORITY

SHARED SERVICES AND ESTATES OPTIONS FOR THE METROPOLITAN POLICE SERVICE 

 

Slightly off topic, but gives this gives you an idea of the thinking regarding the future sharing of ancillary services, fire, police and ambulance and emanating from the Boys in Blue (GLA Conservatives)! Amazing that West Mercia Police are held up as an example and cited throughout this document. Note the driving force of these schemes are the estates departments. However nothing about demolishing existing buildings to get your way.

 

Also Blue Light Estates

 

Blue Light Estates is an FHP service dedicated to saving money for the Emergency Services through property asset management. We are problem solvers and strategic property advisors who pride ourselves on thinking differently to achieve results.

 

Profile

Your property is your biggest asset and maximising its value could free up funds to invest in bigger, better facilities that are purpose built and more suited to the challenges facing today's emergency services. 

 

At FHP, we can provide you with in-depth advice on how to fund the development of new facilities that deliver the operating efficiency demanded of modern emergency services, through the strategic acquisition and disposal of your current property portfolio. Having worked with many emergency service providers, we understand and can interpret your location criteria and risk profiles, and of course, we always look to maximise best value.

 

A District Valuer's estimation of your property assets may not be an accurate assessment when compared with an open market value, and may not take into consideration lucrative alternative uses, such as residential or retail. Our team of Property Consultants look at your site locations, their size and what potential they have for other property uses to give the most accurate valuation.

 

Over the past 20 years, FHP has assembled a team that operates in multiple sectors including retail, industrial, office, leisure and residential. This enables us to match the potential of your site with everything from roadside retail and residential to pubs, restaurant, leisure, office and transport opportunities. 

 

Our team of rating surveyors can also check you have been assessed appropriately and advise upon rating appeals to reduce your long-term costs.

 

This seems to be the "transformational" pattern across the whole country.

[Cambo]

Megilleland your a star shining out brightly on a dark moonless night!

 

Been reading some of the ESG masterplan 2008 & look wot they say about bus station & railway station

[Ubique]

Fellow Posters, I am amazed at the research that you are doing - it's so remarkable what you are turning up - it's reminds me of my childhood at the seaside looking in rock pools and under rocks , it was always a surprise what you see when you delve . That is so true now. Think that there is a few more rocks to lok under!

 

I want to say a sincere thank you to the researches on this post - pleased to say ,to many to name , you know who you are, however I must say one name , Dippyhippy , without dippies foresight into what was proposed none of this would of happened .

 

There my well be a long way to go but I know you all have the energy , intelligence and willingness to continue to the end.

[megilleland]

HEREFORDSHIRE'S STRATEGIC HOUSING LAND AVAILABILITY ASSESSMENT (SHLAA) 2011

 

The three sites mentioned above can be found here:

 

Land off Faraday Road see page 215

 

Hereford Bus Station see page 267

 

County Offices, Bath Street see page 269

[John Harrington]

Hi megilleland, superb research and links as usual! Obviously by 2011 the Records Office had come into the equation but it wasn't included in the HWFS's feasibility report in 2010 though?

[megilleland]

Hereford Times Wednesday 21st May 2014 in News By Bill Tanner

Herefordshire Council could free millions of pounds in land and property for new university

 

HEREFORDSHIRE Council is ready to free up millions of pounds worth of land and buildings for a future university in the county.

 

Next month, a single councillor will sign off  on the council starting talks with New University Herefordshire (NUH) over six "start up" sites for student accommodation, administration and teaching.

 

The sites are identified in a "forward plan" that pitches two city centre office blocks - Franklin House and Blueschool House - to NUH at less than full market value if not transferred under lease.

 

Land on the city's planned link road, off  Canal Road, and at North Magazine, Rotherwas, is also offered.

 

The city's present fire station in St Owen Street makes the list too.

 

There, the council has a deal pending with Hereford  & Worcester Fire and Rescue Authority (HWFRA) that would see the station site swapped for that of the council's adjacent Bath Street offices - Hereford's former working boys home.

 

That deal was signed off by Councillor Harry Bramer, cabinet member for contracts and assets, who is expected to sign off starting the talks with NUH - now a tertiary education trust  - next month.

 

In March, the full council passed a resolution backing the university project with time limited options on land and buildings seen as the most practical offer.

 

The forward plan values Franklin House and Blueschool House at £800k and £500k respectively with consent needed from Homes and Communities Agency (HCA) which has an interest in both sites.

 

Land on the link road is valued at £800k, the fire station £500k and North Magazine £200k per acre.

 

Canal Road, however, won't be available for another four years.

 

These sites would be sold to the university at full market value if a sale can be achieved by  April next year and the council also wants protection clauses allowing it to take sites back should that be necessary.

 

Karen Usher, NUH project leader, said the council continued to be a part of “productive conversations†over likely locations for the university.

 

“We welcome the support,†she said.

 

“We welcome the support,†she said. Handed on a plate more like it! And they go on about everybody cutting back while they carry on with their pipe dreams.

[Denise Lloyd]

Off we go again another hair brained very costly exercise.  Our suits do not seem to understand tidy as you go along.  

[Ubique]

Another interesting story from Bill Tanner about planning and the Council forking out our money on paying costs after losing the Case in the High Ct.

 

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/11227119._Closed_doors__council_planning_decision_overturned_at_High_Court/?ref=erec

[Cambo]

That site off Faraday rd (old sun valley site) would be big enough to house the police & fire service me thinks?

[dippyhippy]

I would agree, but is it close enough to "The historic, medieval core"??

[Cambo]

Ubique having just read the bill tanner story interesting that cargill meats plan on spending £35m upgrading there Hereford plant? I'm assuming that they still own the faraday rd site? If so then it would seem they are not planning on developing it?

But well done Mrs Janet Srodzinske on getting a result!!!

[dippyhippy]

Fellow Posters, I am amazed at the research that you are doing - it's so remarkable what you are turning up - it's reminds me of my childhood at the seaside looking in rock pools and under rocks , it was always a surprise what you see when you delve . That is so true now. Think that there is a few more rocks to lok under!

I want to say a sincere thank you to the researches on this post - pleased to say ,to many to name , you know who you are, however I must say one name , Dippyhippy , without dippies foresight into what was proposed none of this would of happened .

There my well be a long way to go but I know you all have the energy , intelligence and willingness to continue to the end.

Evening Ubique!

 

Thanks so very much for your kind words, but honestly I do not deserve to be singled out for praise!

The diligent diggers and researchers are the backbone of this, and its very much a team effort!

All I do is link this thread together, and try to encourage folk to keep posting their nuggets of information.....which you have also kindly provided!

 

A few months ago, someone asked me the question, "Do you care what happens to The Boys Home?"

My answer was, and still is, Yes I Do......I am just so very glad that so many others feel the same way, and have taken the time to contribute to this thread.

 

It's me, who needs to thank you lovely lot, for sticking with this, and giving this subject the support it deserves.

 

So......Thanks Everybody!

[Cambo]

I don't know dippy but it was I now believe there preferred site? If so you'd have to ask the question is its 2 mins response time to reach the medieval core achievable? & if not then is wot there saying a myth?

Thank you dippy for those kind words! we do it cos we luv the old boys home,we luv you & we luv our city but we don't luv the council & there barmy ideologies!!!