Saving The Working Boys Home *UPDATE*

[John Harrington]

And obviously by 'love' I meant something else.

[dippyhippy]

Obviously!

[dippyhippy]

Slogan T-Shirts are a good idea though!

 

"I Blame Geoff...."

 

"Jarvis jumped he wasn't pushed..."

 

Could be a nice little sideline!

Almost forgot the most important one,

 

 

"Bobby for King!"

[John Harrington]

Actually I'm probably getting a little unfairly personal and I don't know the man so we'll scrap the T Shirts. He probably means well and is a nice guy in real life but his name does seem to crop up an awful lot around contentious issues. This may be as a result of his position in the Council rather than because he's driving any agenda. Who knows...that's the point I suppose. We just don't know who does what!

[John Harrington]

I'll buy 10 Bobby For King shirts! Or For King Bobby shirts, 3 for me and 7 for Patricia to sleep in every night of the week.

[dippyhippy]

Sold!

Pat will be delighted!!

[John Harrington]

Only a fiver each.

 

Sorry guys, back on topic now.

 

BTW dippyhippy, Michael Hayes who's set up the Save Our City fb page dedicated to raising awareness of the Working Boy's Home is trying to post on here but can't at present. Have a look at his page. 

 

 

[dippyhippy]

No way!

That's spooky! Is this a wind-up??? I can be a tad gullible!

Colin got me "verified" pretty quickly....about three hours!

I can't wait for Michael to join in the fun!

[John Harrington]

It will wind (ignite more like) Patricia up! You are a tad gullible dippy. I went on Vistaprint and did it up very quickly. We should take orders though for the next blogger bash. Right I'm out of here, night night campers.

[dippyhippy]

Night Night, John!

[Aylestone Voice]

I have received a very detailed response from a Councillor and am checking with him that there is no objection to me passing it on. More news later hopefully

[twowheelsgood]

I note today's HT editorial has another swipe at the 'mendacious meddlers', claiming 'all manner of wider opposition can rally' around a 'totem' ie the Working Boys Home (or Bath St offices as the HT calls them). Perhaps she's sore that the HT story has only attracted 4 comments, yet HV has 130 comments and over 2000 views. Frankly, its an absurd stance and does the HT no favours.

 

As Colin notes elsewhere, the power of social media knows no bounds and HV reflects that.

[dippyhippy]

I have just read it Two Wheels!

Was about to post a comment about it!

 

"It's fair to say that the council didn't see trouble over the site coming"

No, I bet they didn't, because they wanted the details kept under wraps!!

 

This thread has been up for one week, has attracted more than 2000 views, and plenty of comments - thank Christ for Hereford Voice, without this forum, this discussion could not have taken place!

[dippyhippy]

Aylestone Voice - this sounds interesting, let us know when you have an update!

[megilleland]

Breaking News Hereford Times: 

4:14pm Thursday 20th March 2014 in News By Bill Tanner

 

Council puts off decision on future Bath Street offices

 

HEREFORDSHIRE Council has put off a decision on offering its Bath Street offices as the site for a new Hereford Fire Station.

 

The council confirmed this afternoon (Thurs) that the decision due next week will now be taken on April 14.

 

As previously reported by the Hereford Times, the council has said that it would be looking to sell the site on the open market  if the fire station proposal falls through.  

 

The council is facing a vociferous - and growing – opposition to its plan for the site.  

 

Heritage campaigners, in particular,  make a preservation case for the offices as city’s former working boys home, despite English Heritage turning down a listing application.

 

Other concerns question the need for a new fire station and the suitability of Bath Street  for that station.

 

 

At last the Council is listening.

[dippyhippy]

Fabulous!

Maybe, just maybe....we could be getting somewhere!

[Cambo]

Hi dippy & gang apologise for being late had a nightmare creating account then my network went down?!

I'm running a Facebook page called save our city where I've been posting bit of info that I've managed to find out. As I see it this is a stitch up by HC on HWFRS one of the locations that HWFRS looked @ was the county bus station however HC refused HWFRS this site because they said it was more valuable as a commercial plot? But when you realise that Stanhope where give the OLM for free when it was originally valued @ £30 million then that reason seems very unjust?!

[dippyhippy]

Hi Cambo!

The very warmest of welcomes to you!

I have heard about your excellent page, and I am delighted that you have also joined the discussion on here!

I don't think I would offend anyone by describing some of us as a small and motley crew......we have been posting about this council, particularly the cabinet, and there penchant for making bid decisions , that affect so many of us, behind closed doors for quite some time!

Fortunately, we have a few really good councillors who try their best to keep us informed and answer queries....of which there are many!

I hadn't heard about the bus station possibility, so already you're BRI GI g new info to the party!

There just doesn't appear to be any joined up thinking around d this issue, does there??

[Cambo]

Thanks dippy glad to be here!

None wots so ever logical thinking is unheard of @ HC!

Yes the bus was one of the other two sites HWFRS looked @ the other one was somewhere on the purposed new link rd. I know that the bus station was one as it came up in a phone conversation I had with the lawyer for HWFRS a slip up on his part as he did try back tracking?

[dippyhippy]

That's very interesting!!

I have just spotted the email that John Harrington posted - its on the Social Media thread. I have asked Colin if he could also make it appear on this thread, as I don't want folk to miss it!

I shall hold my hands up now - I don't "do" Facebook! I am useless with technical bits and pieces, and haven't managed to get my head around it yet.....I sometimes need assistance using the remote control for the TV!!

[John Harrington]

Ah, thanks Dippy. I wondered what the

**** had happened to it. I blamed the technology but it was operator error once again. Will repost below:

 

 

Save Our City

 

13 March at 20:27 I'd like to share this email I've just sent a concerned friend who is singing, from off the same hymn sheet…& it goes something like this…Hi Gareth Thank you I must admit that I do not wish to see either building demolished so if we can save one then the likely hood is we will save both? As I think the fire station has massive potential for conversion? Even thou its life as a working fire station is over?!The council have acted appalling in the way they have treated HWFRS which in affect could have serious implications on lives? For start HWFRS do not want bath street as a site but the council have refused them on two good locations as I understand! Last Thursday I decided to ring HWFRS head office in worcester to speak with the chief fire officer of the region, unfortunately he was unavalible but his nice PA took my details & said she would get him to call me back! Within an hour I received a call however it was not the fire chief but there lawyer nice chap. In the conversation that follow he tried to convince me that the building was falling down but I wasn't having any of it, as I can clearly see it isn't only living 150 meters away I look @ it virtually every day! He asked if I had noticed the scaffolding to which I replied it was gone & had been for sometime.about a year I think & not that I have ever seen anybody doing any work to the building apart from the scaffolders removing scaffold! He was surprised then asked if I knew why it was there to which I replied no, well he said bits where falling off to which I said no they weren't. The conversation moved on, I then suggest the bus station as a alternative site & to move the bus station next to the railway station? His reply shocked me he said they had looked @ it & indeed he agreed with me that it was a good site & location but the council had refused to let them have it? He then started to back track saying they wouldn't be able to have a frontage??? But in fact they could have a frontage it would be on union walk & they could wrap it around the old custom house which is on union walk??& I think the council should give them it or any land that they feel is in the right location! After all they gave Stanhope the old market for free & that had been valued @ £30 million! Then HWFRS could convert there old place & any money they make could be put back into saving firemen's jobs & lives??? It's just a thought! Thanks Michael ps apologise for grammar spelling etc

[Cambo]

I'm no geek either technology has me befuddled too!!

You should also look @ wot the friendly neighbourhood fire has to say about job cuts & the removal of one engine from Hereford scary reading especially if you ever find yourself caught up in a fire or RTA!!!

[dippyhippy]

If they were to get the bus station land, then the bus station could be sited on Rock field car park land possibly??

There was talk a while back about moving the bus station and creating a "transport hub"....so it COULD be within the realms of possibility....??

[Cambo]

I've given the bus station a lot of thought as to the possibilities of putting the fire station there & it is by far a better location than bath street for a hundred reasons & for one the road system there is perfected for HWFRS to be able to reach all parts of the city? As I'm lead to believe by some councillors it needs to be in easy reach of the city centre (that's the old part) in two minutes as fire poses the greatest risk in that area!!

[Cambo]

Not to mention there would be no need to demolish any buildings!!!

[dippyhippy]

Sounds like a win win situation.........they'll never go for it!!

[Cambo]

Well I don't see why not but then again we are talking about HC!!

So maybe we need HWFRS to come out & say that they want it? & Then force a public debate about it? I don't think HWFRS realise that they are in a strong position on this there's elections next year

[Cambo]

& if they did say that the bus station was there preferred location then I'm sure the public would back them against HC anyday?

[megilleland]

From the Agenda (page 109 onwards) for the meeting of the

Hereford & Worcester Fire Authority Policy and Resources Committee 

26 March 2014 

 

Conference Suites 1, 2 & 3 

Headquarters, 2 Kings Court, Charles Hastings Way, Worcester WR5 1JR 

 

Councillors: 

 

Mr K Taylor (Chairman), Mr R Adams (Vice-Chairman), 

 

Mr A Amos, Mr P Gretton, Mr A Hardman, Mrs R Jenkins, Brigadier P Jones CBE, Mrs M Lloyd-Hayes, Mrs F Oborski, Mr D Prodger MBE, Mr D Taylor, Mr P Tuthill and Mr R Udall. 

 

item 14. Asset Management Strategy : Hereford Fire Station pages 109 - 112 

To advise the Policy and Resources Committee of a proposed arrangement to provide the new fire Station in Hereford and seek approval to proceed with this project through to completion. The appendix to this report includes exempt information. If there is to be a discussion of the details in the appendix the Committee will be asked first to make the following resolution: 

 

Exclusion of the Press and Public 

In the opinion of the Clerk to the Authority the meeting will not be, or is not likely to be open to the public at the time item 14 is considered for the following reason:

 

Item 14 is likely to disclose information relating to the financial or business affairs of the Authority

 

 

Report of Head of Asset Management 

 

14. Asset Management Strategy: Hereford Fire Station 

 

Purpose of report 

1. To advise the Policy and Resources Committee of a proposed arrangement to provide a new fire station in Hereford and seek approval to proceed with this project through to completion. 

 

Recommendations 

It is recommended that: 

 

i) the Policy and Resources Committee approve the proposed arrangement between Herefordshire Council and the Fire Authority to provide a new fire station in Hereford; and 

 

ii) that the Policy and Resources Committee authorise the Chief Fire Officer to proceed with the project to completion, on terms to be agreed with the Treasurer and Head of Legal Services and in consultation with the Chairman of the Fire Authority.

 

Introduction and Background 

2. Members will be aware that in March 2011, the Policy and Resources Committee gave approval for indicative budget allocations to replace a number of fire stations as part of an overall Asset Management Strategy. A summary of the indicative allocation for the replacement of Hereford fire station approved at that committee is given in the appendix to this document. 

 

3. In November 2013, the Policy and Resources Committee were informed about a project to deliver a new fire station in Hereford at Herefordshire Council’s Bath Street offices site in Hereford. The site is an ideal location as available space for the size of site required for operational resources is limited in Hereford, it is well placed to respond to risk in the city, and being very near to the current location, the availability of Retained Duty System officers mobilising to the new site will be acceptable. 

 

4. The Policy and Resources Committee authorised the Chief Fire Officer to carry on with negotiations with Herefordshire Council, to move the project forward and agreed to spend part of the previously allocated budget on work to take the project to planning approval stage. The Policy and Resources Committee were also advised that a further paper, including a detailed cost feasibility would be brought back for final approval before entering into a contract for the acquisition of the site. 

 

Current position 

5. Following detailed discussions with Herefordshire Council, the principles for the project to proceed have been established as part of the development of the draft Heads of Terms. These reflect a proposed land swap and associated works costs which balance the valuations of both sites, which were independently evaluated by the District Valuer in October 2013. Essentially, there is a land swap of the two sites, but in addition to the demolition of the existing building in Bath Street and the construction of the new fire station, the Authority will hand back part of the Bath Street site on completion of the construction of the Fire Station for use by Herefordshire Council’s staff. 

 

6. Herefordshire Council will acquire the freehold of the current Fire Station site at the same time that the Authority will aquire the freehold of the current Bath Street Council Offices. A lease-back arrangement will exist between both parties so that the Fire Station can still be occupied by fire service staff as the new fire station is being built. The financial consideration for this rental period will reflect the cost of the demolition of the current fire station, which will balance the overall differences between the valuations. 

 

7. Herefordshire Council Executive members have approved the proposal in principle and should formally approve the project towards the end of March. The Bath Street site is part of a conservation area, but the buildings are not Listed. English Heritage have confirmed that the offices will not be listed in the future. Considerable interest and representations have been made by the Hereford Civic Society, who are not supportive of the proposal. Herefordshire Council has undertaken a Heritage Impact Assessment which indicates the council offices on Bath Street to be of low historic/architectural value. This has been shared with the Planning Service. Pre-application advice has been taken by the H&WFRS and the preliminary desgns for the new fire station are due to be taken through the planning approval process in April 2014. 

 

Financial Considerations 

8. The arrangement between Herefordshire Council and our Authority is structured so that the only financial outlay to enable the project to proceed consists of three parts: 

 

* the cost of demolition of the Bath Street site; 

* the cost of building the new fire station on that site; and 

* the cost of demolishing the current fire station. 

 

9. As all of these elements are subject to a tender process and are therefore commercially sensitive, a detailed cost estimate is set out in the exempt appendix. The Committee can be assured that the current cost estimate for all of these elements sits comfortably within the overall project estimate, which has previously received Policy and Resources Committee approval. 

 

10. If the planning application is successful and Herefordshire Council formally approve the proposal, there should be no further barriers to the project proceeding. There is a possibility that recommendations coming from the planning process may increase the overall cost of the scheme, for example because of enhanced treatments to the exterior of the building. It is hoped that if this is the case, the overall cost of the project will still be contained within the previously advised estimate. 

 

11. It is therefore requested that the Policy and Resources Committee agree to the format of this proposal and authorise the Chief Fire Officer to proceed with this scheme to full conclusion to provide a new fire station in Hereford. 

 

Conclusion/Summary 

12. It is recommended that the Policy and Resources Committee approve the proposed arrangement between Herefordshire Council and the Authority to provide a new fire station in Hereford and that the Policy and Resources Committee authorise the Chief Fire Officer to proceed with the project to completion, on terms to be agreed with the Treasurer and Head of Legal Services, in consultation with the Chair of the Fire Authority. 

 

Corporate Considerations

 

Resource Implications 

(identify any financial, legal, property or human resources issues) 

 

As a Capital Project and an agreement between Authorities, the paper refers to a number of Financial, Property and Legal items. 

 

Strategic Policy Links 

(identify how proposals link in with current priorities and policy framework and if they do not, identify any potential implications). 

 

The Asset Management Strategy supports ‘Our Strategy’ on the foundations of ‘Buildings and 

Infrastructure’. 

 

Risk Management / Health & Safety

(identify any risks, the proposed control measures and risk evaluation scores). 

 

All capital projects are managed within the CDM 2007 regulations. 

 

Consultation

(identify any public or other consultation that has been carried out on this matter) 

 

Consultation is undertaken as part of the planning approval process. 

 

Equalities

(has an Equalities Impact Assessment been completed? If not, why not?)

 

No – this will be considered at the appropriate time. 

 

 

Supporting Information: 

 

Appendix 1 – EXEMPT INFORMATION 

Background papers – Policy and Resources Committee 19 November 2013 

 

Contact Officer

Ian Edwards, Head of Asset Management 

(01905 368360) 

Email: Iedwards@hwfire.org.uk

[twowheelsgood]

As building professional, who lives just a few yards from the Fire Station, and having been inside it on several occasions, I can assure everyone that there is very little wrong with it. Whilst it may no longer suit the requirements of the Fire Brigade, it most certainly does not merit demolition. It is actually rather a fine example of 1950's architecture and would convert in flats very nicely. Everyone from the PM downwards bangs on endlessly about sustainability and making best use of our resources - and it is enshrined it in planning law - so where is the sustainability, or logic, in demolishing a sound building (particularly for a bloody car park)?

 

The bus station would make a good site, no doubt of that - it even has two accesses as the present station. Yes, there is supposed to be a new 'transport hub' at the station, but when? This is the issue - the council are incapable of rational decisions and achieving set timescales, which affects third parties, who have to move on to often less suitable sites because they cannot wait forever.

 

Why didn't the Council make the Rockfield site into a (temporary) bus station - indeed they still could. Releases the present bus station and the jobs a good 'un - no meetings necessary. Or is that too easy?