Saving The Working Boys Home *UPDATE*

[Cambo]

Well put Twowheelsgood I couldn't agree more!!

Maybe we could all attend there meeting on 26th? Or is it going to be put back to April 14th as Hereford times released a statement saying a decision will be made then?

[dippyhippy]

Christ - that report makes for sobering reading.

Sounds as if they just need to dot the i's and cross the t's - job done.

Dreadful.

Low historical value?? Who are they trying to kid??

[Cambo]

Another thing to think about is this does HWFRS know that HC gave Stanhope the OLM for free??

If not I wonder wot they'd think about this deal then?

[Cambo]

It does dippy but there's nothing saying there going to get planning as locals are not keen on this deal!

I think we need to put the pressure on HWFRS not to go through with it? hereford can't afford a expensive mistake which this will be!!!

we need to start raising question on why they can't have the bus station??

[dippyhippy]

I know Mark Hubbard has been keeping an eye on this thread - it would be good to hear his thoughts on this.

If a viable, cost effective alternative was brought to the table, surely they would have to consider it???

[Cambo]

Well the government are all for savings after all there's supposed to be cutting back on spending!

[Cambo]

Another email from our friendly neighbourhood fireman about job cuts & how it will affect the county!!

On 11 Mar 2014, at 11:30, Michael Hayes <magicroofer@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Hi - How come HWFRS have the responsibility of demolishing & cleaning up the fire station that seems unusual to me? as you'd think who ever takes over the site would be responsible for doing that? So who will be responsible for demolishing & cleaning up bath street the council or HWFRS?

Also how do you feel about the job cuts?

Would Hereford be put @ serious risk with the lose of 22 full time firefighters & a engine? Could you cope if there was a major fire say in the city centre again with such a reduced force?

Ps It look like to me that HWFRS have been stitched up by the council on this they have a duty to insure that the new station is in a right location not just to HWFRS but also a duty to the public too & I believe they've failed on this!

 

Michael,

 

As far as I am aware, HWFRS are required to clear the current station site on St Owen street, as well as demolishing the buildings on the proposed new site.

 

Herefordshire council were so keen to offload this site that they wanted contracts signed at the start of January and hand responsibility of the site over immeadiately, however, HWFRS have refused to sign contracts until planning permission is gained for the new station site.

 

As important a issue as the proposed station is, I see the fight against the proposed cuts as the bigger issue.

 

Herefordshire is already the ONLY county in the country with only 1 whole time (24/7,365 crewed) fire station. When you look at the population that may seem logical, but with the remote nature of the county, a full time station is vitally important.

 

The other stations in Herefordshire are retained crewed, by part-time FF's on a pager system. Any time they are called in, there is a minimum of 5 minutes before the engine can even leave the station, pus the relevant travel time to the incident.

 

For the service, when cuts are required, the second whole time appliance at Hereford is an easy option. They are looking to lose the 2 whole time appliance from Worcester also, and decide to treat Hereford in exactly the same way. Though the fact that Worcester has Kidderminster, Bromsgrove, Redditch wholetime stations, and Malvern, Droitwich and Evesham day-crewed stations in close proximity for guaranteed availability of appliances is overlooked.

 

The issue with being surrounded by retained stations as we are in Hereford, is that the availability of the appliances is not guaranteed. It is often the case that more than 1 of these outlying stations are unavailable due to crewing deficiencies.

 

Our wholetime crews at Hereford are often mobilised to incidents along with outlying retained stations around the county. When this happens, there is often a wholetime appliance left covering the city, or our own Retained crew can be mobilised to the station and provide immeadiate stand-by cover. If the cuts are approved, this is unlikely to be the case, and residents of the city may be left to wait for an appliance from Fownhope/Ross/Ledbury/Bromyard/Leominster/Ewyas Harold or Peterchurch, (depending on their availability), a wait of up to 25 mins!!

 

The question of wether we could cope is a difficult one. The weight of initial attack for any incident forms a big part of the incident commander's tactical plan. If for instance, we were to arrive at a developing house fire, what could be achieved (in terms potential of lives saved/property damage restricted or prevented) by 1 crew or 2 crews is vastly different.

[megilleland]

I've given the bus station a lot of thought as to the possibilities of putting the fire station there & it is by far a better location than bath street for a hundred reasons & for one the road system there is perfected for HWFRS to be able to reach all parts of the city? As I'm lead to believe by some councillors it needs to be in easy reach of the city centre (that's the old part) in two minutes as fire poses the greatest risk in that area!!

 

Should the link road be built, the bus station site would give easier access to Edgar Street for fire vehicles to go north or south of the river.

[Cambo]

Well it looks like there going to build the link road whatever as they've shelled out a lot of money already so if they don't it will be a huge financial loss for the city? (Another one to add to the list)

[Cambo]

In Jessie Normans words its a bit like trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted!! He said that to me last year @ Belmont fete after I questioned him about the validity of the purposed link road!!

[dippyhippy]

I feel like I'm swimming in treacle - its exhausting isn't it???

Good Lord, if I'd know all those months ago when I first posted my concerns on HT, that I'd still have so much to be concerned about.....I'd have thought twice!!!!

[dippyhippy]

Anyways!

The bottle of red is empty! Speak to you all tomorrow no doubt!

[twowheelsgood]

I'm completely baffled as to why the fire brigade has to demolish the current building (as part of the deal) - it just makes no sense at all. It is a major cost and seriously devalues the site. As I've said, it’s a valuable building - both architecturally and fiscally - put it on the open market and get the best possible price, but no, once again the council are simply failing to see any sense and are hell bent on demolishing a perfectly good building for a fecking car park! Its Rockfield 2! Its madness!

[Cloudberry]

I heard that the current fire station building cannot be kept because the concrete structure is deteriorating with some sort of "concrete cancer".  If that is true it might explain the apparent urgency in finding a location for new premises?

[Ubique]

Re new location for the Fire Station , just a thought , might have been considered before in this very interesting and worthwhile post.

 

With a bit of planning and design could not a part of the City Bus Station area be considered , appears to be a very good location , central and with very good access onto the major roads of this City .

[Mark Hubbard]

Hello Everyone,

 

I have just had a very useful discussion with the Fire Service.  I think there has been a lot of assumptions made around how communication happens in Herefordshire or not as the case may be.  I am yet to speak to the Chief Fire Officer (he is on annual leave until mid next week), but I am going to propose that we hold a public meeting so that all of the issues around this land swap deal can be aired. 

 

As a community, we need to fully understand why the Bath Street site has been chosen; why there is not another suitable site; what happens if this deal does not go through now and how that will affect our fire safety in the future and whether sacrificing a building like the Working Boys Home is one that we would chose to make given all of the facts of the matter.

 

Please watch this space.

[megilleland]

Mark. So your saying there is no alternative scheme?

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

Please can I record my 199% agreement to TwoWheels' excellent assesment of a) the current structural condition and b) suitability for conversion to flats of the existing fire station.  It is complete and utter nonsense to suggest that it is beyond repair or 'past its sell-by date'.  I suspect that Cambo would agree. 

 

I also agree with TwoWheels that the present fire station it is a rather fine example of 1950s modernism - but am prepared to concede that admitting to liking modern architecture these days is about as cranky as suggesting that Cliff Ricard is a good singer.

 

Seriously folks, there are surely two interlocking topics here: finding another centrally-located site to build Hereford's 21st century fire station; and b) finding an alternative use for that fine group of Victorian buildings, formerly the Working Boys Home, at the top of Bath Street.

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

Megilleland's unearthing last night of the H&WFA minute is truly epic and deserves a Voice Gold Star for Investigation.

 

Four choice nuggets to look out for in the dense text above are: 1) Press and public were excluded from the discussions; 2) English Heritage had indicated that the former Working Boys Home would not be listed in the future; 3) Herefordshire Council underook a Heritage Impact Assessment and concluded that the boys home buildings were of low historic / architectural value; 4) H&WFA had been told that it could expect planning approval in April 2014.

 

The only thing missing from Megi's wonderfully-revealing Minute is: "The meeting was advised that the next Leader of Herefordshire Council is to be Vladimir Putin."

[Mark Hubbard]

Megilleland - I am not aware of an alternative scheme at all.  

 

Grid Knocker - Your statement above "4) H&WFA had been told that it could expect planning approval in April 2014." is inaccurate, the papers for the meeting on the 26th do not state this. Indeed they state very specifically "if planning permission is granted" - IF not WHEN.

 

I am firmly of the opinion that we need to air these concerns publicly.  Forums on websites are useful to get a flavour of concerns, but there are a lot of assumptions and misinterpretations that can be made without challenge.  Not everyone joins the platform and the major players are significantly absent.  I shall pursue a public meeting with the Head of the Fire Service.

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

@ Cllr Hubbard: Mea culpa!  I mis-read the item about the expected planning approval.

 

@Megilleland: I mistook your post for a Minute of a meeting which had already taken place, whereas it is the 'paper' which the H&WFA is due to discuss next Wednesday.

 

My observations about the council's Heritage Impact Assessment and English Heritage's lack of enthusiasm to support Listing remain, however.

[Jim Kenyon]

I wonder if anybody has asked what the folks that live in the central area want, I own a pub across the road since i bought it 14 years ago I have seen three housing developments go ahead nearby, the fire station with scaffolding on it for many years because of health and safety and the fear of bits of it falling off, the building is old and now not fit for purpose as it is very expensive to run a new building would offer budget saving going forward, the fight for keeping the pump is different all together and nothing to do with this thread.The fire service have stated that they need to be close to where they are now,there support normally comes from Fownhope and if we do lose a pump that support will become even more crucial.

When I first heard about this I did and do think what a good idea,the new fire station can be built with no distruption to fire cover the council needs to use that assit or sell it if a developer got hold of it it would be levelled and as many houses as possible crammed into it ,swopping seems the best option to me as for the old site if you sold it for housing you can do that once if it was turned into a car park there would be an annual income going forward also the location is perfect for anybody coming from Ledbury,Tupsley,Fownhope etc as it is on the edge of town you can normally easily get to it without queuing people would park and then walk into the historic core of the city center along st Owens st hopefully using the shops along the way and on their return exit the city easily,having spoken to many people living in central avenue,turner st area they would welcome the fire station move and the car park but would not be keen on yet more housing finally I am not closed to anything but what would the council do with an old empty building which costs money and has no further use as offices,where would the fire station go and yes we do need edge of city parking and that seems an ideal place.

I have no sway on this decision as with all of them it is the cabinet that has the final say before we start hugging this building let's work out what can be practically done with it going forward.

[dippyhippy]

Evening Mark!

Brilliant news about the public meeting - I fear this is the only way that local people will be consulted and informed about this issue.

 

Hi Jim, thanks for joining this discussion. Funnily enough, when I was discussing this thread last weekend, I actually said I was surprised you hadn't commented, as a resident and business owner. There are many aspects to take into consideration......but with all due respect to you, I cannot understand why folk feel we need another car park....particularly when charges are ever on the increase.Perhaps if parking was made cheaper and easier.....?? But that's for another topic!!

[dippyhippy]

One other thing, Mark...who will be speaking at the meeting, and will there be the opportunity to ask questions??

[Cambo]

With all respect mr kenyon but have you been reading any of this thread @ all???

[twowheelsgood]

With all respect mr kenyon but have you been reading any of this thread @ all???

 

Hear, hear! With all due respect to the Cllr, for goodness sake, punctuate your comments. It won't make it any easier to agree with your stance, but it will make it easier to understand!

 

"… before we start hugging this building let's work out what can be practically done with it going forward." You'll be calling us mendacious meddlers next. Yes, let's practically work out what can be done - this is what Cllr Hubbard is trying to arrange. Unfortunately, the Cabinet have learned nothing  from the mass, and mess, of mistakes all around us and continue being contemptuous of those they are supposed to be serving. They seem intent on doing a quick deal in secrecy, without even a courtesy call to the ward councillor. Its hard to work out what can be done under those circumstances.

[Cambo]

I think mr kenyon is some wot lacking in imagination if he thinks demolishing a structurally sound building for a car park is a good idea??

I also believe no one likes to have to park some way away from where they have to go? Unless of course there out hiking!!

[Jim Kenyon]

Hi Cambo to be honest no not a lot of it but I have lived and do work right by it and have done for the last 14 years I have given an honest and open account on what I think there will be many people that won't agree with my thoughts but what are the alternatives I think a public meeting would be a good idea because I would hope a lot of local people would come along and give there views because to be fair they are the ones that really matter.

[Cambo]

Hello mr kenyon then you should read it as it is very informative.there have been a number of different discussions including people suggesting alternative sites for a new fire station!

I have to say I'm disappointed that you have not take more of an interest in this matter, given as you say living opposite the fire station? As it happens I live 150 meters away & since it was announced of HC intentions I've taken a great interest in this subjected!

As I can't see the logic of putting the fire station on bath street & in the process demolishing two buildings?…which is a costly exercise in its self, not to mention its a bad location for a fire station!

Hopefully after reading thread, properly you will have a better understanding on the matter?

[Biomech]

I agree with Jim.... to a degree :)
When things are beyond economical repair, you flatten them. Build a new fire station.

 

I think the bigger issue here is what the council are doing with these sites and how they are trading them off and selling them £1 to the lowest bidder. I believe that is of bigger concern.

 

I saw this picture on facebook this morning, I don't know was responsible for what happened here, but an old building was removed and whoever put in the new ones did a very good job. Someone states "I preferred it before", I think they are being pedantic because that is an improvement economically, structurally and aesthetically.

 

Although I do appreciate many people like the old days and the old stuff. Personally, I'm not against change, I'm against change done wrong or badly.