Saving The Working Boys Home *UPDATE*

[megilleland]

Here you are Dippy.

 

From Hereford Times - Friday 1st November 2013 in Letters

 

Cllr Patricia Morgan, Cabinet Member, Assets and Corporate Services, Frome Ward, Herefordshire Council, says asset sell-off was done in best way

 

WITH reference to your article on sales of council assets (October 17), Herefordshire Council like many other councils owns many assets ranging from tiny parcels of land to offices such as Plough Lane.

 

Herefordshire Council has a duty to manage the asset portfolio so that it uses county taxpayers’ money to best advantage.

 

Inevitably over time, some of the assets have become surplus to requirements either because they are not delivering a sufficient return and/or that they are no longer strategically important to support the delivery of services.

 

Currently the council has a policy for the disposal of surplus assets which has been in operation since 2009.

 

The assets recently sold at auction were part of a series of three auctions to sell off surplus assets under the current policy. The first was in July and a third is planned for February next year. This is not some “fire†sale but a planned approach to ensure best value for the taxpayer.

 

There are many ways to sell assets but the key driver must surely be ensuring value for money for the taxpayer.

 

The use of an auction using a government procured supplier is a tried and tested method available to councils and government departments for asset disposal.

 

It offers relatively low fixed price commission; is highly competitive as tendered by the government’s procurement service; ensures local, national and global coverage; requires no tendering process so HC incurs no procurement cost; demonstrates best practice and value for money, promoted by the cabinet office; and reduces bureaucracy with instant access to service and very quick turnaround.

 

The results of the two auctions have confirmed that this has been a good decision.

 

All lots at both auctions sold within 24 hours. All reserve prices were met and many substantially exceeded. A competitive auction attracted local, national and international interest.

 

All money raised at the auction from sales must go into the corporate capital pot.

 

This money can only be used to offset debt or fund a capital project.

 

If debt is offset this can support the revenue position as interest payments will be reduced.

 

Cllr PATRICIA MORGAN, Cabinet Member, Assets and Corporate Services, Frome Ward, Herefordshire Council.

 

I have saved the comments in case HT remove this letter.

[dippyhippy]

Thanks so. much for doing this, Megilleland - and all the brilliant research you have posted. Amazing work!

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

Well researched Megi. I certainly couldn't find Cllr Morgan's letter on the HT site this morning.  I'm not saying it isn't there, but its website is a bit like Hampton Court maze!

 

The one glaring question which jumps off the page at you and needs answering is:- Councillor - if, as you claim, 'Herefordshire Council has a duty to manage the asset portfolio so that it uses county taxpayers' money to best advantage' why in Heaven's name have you never invited offers, or sealed tender bids - or considered putting it in one of your secret London auction sales - of the Bath Street offices?  Instead, since last December you've been locked in secret conclave with the H&W fire authority (deliberately excluding the Ward Councillor), stitching up this naff land swap?  Is that protecting taxpayers' money? 

 

Not from where I'm sitting!

[Mark Hubbard]

Hi Guys,

Just dropping in to answer dippy's question about the public meeting and to re-interpret some of the posts!  At this stage I am only suggesting a public meeting as a way forward - this is to try and open up the decision making process to further public scrutiny.  The format of the meeting is as yet completely undecided as this needs to be discussed with the various representatives of the organisations that may want to take part, but public meetings usually have the format of one or two presentations followed by a question and answer session.  As ward member I would try and organise a brief to all parties attending identifying the issues that have been brought up in this blog along with other concerns that have been expressed elsewhere.  Hopefully this would help focus the presenters on the issues of concern.  I hope this anwers your questions about the public meeting - of course if either the Fire Service or the Council do not wish to come to a public meeting, there is little point in having one.

 

I am meeting with the Leader of the Council tomorrow morning and expect to speak with the Head of the Fire Service when he gets back from holiday on Wednesday. After both of these conversations, I should be able to feedback more information.

 

Previous bloggers have correctly identified the meeting of the H&W Fire Authority Policy & Resources Committee on Wednesday night this week as being the next important stage of the process of the decision.  I am meeting with the IOC representative on the authority this evening to ensure your views are taken into the heart of that meeting.  Cllr Lloyd-Hayes is quite capable of speaking out on this issue and she is expecting to attend on Wednesday.  You must remember that when appointed to the Fire Authority, members are expected to take decisions and advise about what is in the best interests for the Fire Service, taking account of the areas they represent.  If there is a pressing need to replace the Hereford Fire station and if there is only one site on offer, there is little that can be done at that meeting to change things.  What we can make sure of is that views as yet unexpressed are made clear.

 

I do not think, as the Ward Member, that I have been "deliberately excluded", as Grid Knocker asserts above.  I think the communication around this issue has been extremely poor, but to call it deliberate exclusion is going too far and I would not put my name to that.  Having the Fire Authority in place should ordinarily allow for communications to be better than they have been, but both Marcelle and myself have recently been ill which took us both out of circulation for a while, which has compounded the situation.  We are now both up to full speed and will do our best to get things opened up.  Hopefully everyone will feel this is a useful role to play.

[dippyhippy]

Evening Mark,

Thanks for posting this update. I really hope that the invited parties can see the value in this public meeting, and agree to attend. As you say, if they decline the invitation, there may be little point organising one. I look forward to hearing back from you, when hopefully we will have something more concrete to work with.

Once again, I appreciate you taking the time to keep us in the loop.

 

Posters!

Now is the time to hit the email, and make your feelings known!

Wednesdays meeting really is the next crucial step!

There are three key figures I would like you to email, if you feel as strongly about this as I think you do!

The first is Cllr Kit Taylor, who will chair this meeting -ktaylor3@Worcestershire.gov.UK

The second is Cllr Prodger, one of the main players in this-dprodger@hwfire.org.UK

And finally, IOC's very own Cllr Lloyd Hayes-mlloyd-hayes@Herefordshire.gov.UK

 

Get busy folks!!

[Ubique]

Below link to the HT , a story regarding the Council paying the Chief Fire Officer £3000 towards a private operation .

 

 

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/11098704.Row_over_operation_for_Hereford_and_Worcester_fire_chief/?ref=var_0

[dippyhippy]

Cheers Ubique!

I shall have a read through!

[gdj]

Before anyone starts to think that the Hereford Times has gone all rebellious and alternative and done some digging on this,  the FoI request was the Worcester News  - they claim credit and the HT story just says `a FoI request'.

 

Lots of comments already on the Worcester News website - seems it is still a vibrant forum.

 

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/11097283.Taxpayers_fork_out___3_000_for_fire_chief_s_private_back_operation/

 

And when the HT says "We can reveal that...."  - what they mean is they have cut and pasted the Worcester News story.   And the story has oddly been placed beneath several earlier stories - normally they just place the latest one at the top.  

 

I wonder who the other two councillors were - Prodger was in favour of the payment, a Cllr Udall was against it and there are allegedly 2 more involved but one denies being there.  

[dippyhippy]

Curiouser and curiouser!

[Cambo]

Hi dippy I hope you don't mind but I would like to copy your war cry about emailing councillors before Wednesday meeting to my Facebook page if that's ok?

By the way your poem about bobby v Morgan on the banks of the wye, it's not bad not bad @ all!!

[dippyhippy]

Hey Combo!

I have been known to pen the odd protest poem!

I wrote one once called "Fare Thee Well To Jarvis" when he resigned....and HT actually published it!!

My old Mum was so proud!

 

Feel free to use anything I have said on here!

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

Great story about the Chief Fire Officer's private op eh?  ("He was struggling at his desk").

 

I have high hopes that the WEN will bring us the first report of Wednesday's H&WFA's Resouces Committee meeting.

 

I heartily endorse Dippy's call to the e-mailing keyboard - but keep 'em calm and reasoned (not 'over my dead body' hysterical!).

[twowheelsgood]

Re Dippy's Q2, a close friend e-mailed Cllr Harry Bramer asking him this very question a week ago.  To date - total silence!

 

Perhaps TwoWheels can shed some light here: if a building in the council's ownership become surplus to requirements (eg: Bath Street Offices), wouldn't you think that that nice rolly-polly Mr Pickles would expect the council's Property Services Division to invite expressions of interest in the said property, thus ensuring that the asset (our asset) is disposed of for the best price possible? 

 

I would be extremely surprised if the developer who converted the old General Hospital (I believe it was Laings) has had a phone call from Cllr Bramer.

 

Yes, it was Laing Homes (now subsumed into Taylor Wimpey) that did the General Hospital scheme. I would expect it to be incumbent upon the Council to get the 'best value' (their much abused phrase) for any asset that was no longer required. Even a 'swap' as such should pass over the District Valuers desk. The whole thing was being pushed forward with indecent haste, which raises alarm bells - why? who benefits? has the planning department been leaned on during their 'street scape assessment' of the Bath St buildings importance? do the Council really believe they are 'consulting' the great unwashed by saying we can comment when the planning application is made?

[Denise Lloyd]

Yes and from bitter experience commenting on a Planning Application does not really play a huge part in the final decision 

[megilleland]

Went down to have a good look. Here are some photos:

 

 

 

[Aylestone Voice]

Oh Denise!

I do not expect I would ever let it go either, but if only your Ward Councillor had not annoyed so many members of the planning committee by personally attacking the integrity of the officers and the applicants it may have been refused.

[dippyhippy]

Well folks, this is now Day Twelve, of Operation - Save The Working Boys Home.

Tomorrow evening we may have some news from "the closed door" meeting.

 

Have a really good look at the wonderful photographs Megilleland has posted (thanks for those!) Isn't this building 100 times more lovely than the OLM?

 

The clock is ticking.....please make sure those emails have been sent!!

[Cambo]

Hey dippy I thought I'd let you know I put your post about the emails on my Facebook page it's had 1,072 viewings last time I looked not bad!

[dippyhippy]

Good Grief Cambo!

That's incredible.....if half those folks send emails as well, that would be amazing!

 

Thanks for letting me know!

[Denise Lloyd]

It is indeed a beautiful building and one that should be preserved.  Why oh why do other towns preserve their buildings and yet this could be reduced to a pile of rubble in a matter of weeks. I see loads of uses for it - apartments/flats/holiday accommodation/small units for worthy causes in need of alternative premises/food hall/antique centre the list is endless.  I am sure the building is not in that bad state and if it is the Council certainly have lots of questions to answer.  

[dippyhippy]

Good Morning Denise!

You have come up with some great alternative uses for these premises!

Certainly, with the fate of Rose Tinted Rags hanging in the balance, I am sure there are quite a few community projects that would love a share of this space!

There is a little shop within the bus station, The Merchants House, I think its called, and they sell all manner of things that are made by folks with a disability. Likewise the shop that was in Maylords by the bottom of the escalator, that sells things like garden benches and bird boxes. It would make a great craft centre and workshop.

As Two Wheels pointed out on the RTR thread.....its vacant now!

[dippyhippy]

Top of the Morning, to you Posting Posse!!

 

Just to keep you up to date, I have popped over to the Worcester Evening News site, to see if they have an early report on yesterdays closed door meeting. Nothing yet - if any of you can check throughout the day, and post a link if there is an update, I would be extremely grateful!!!

 

There's a Well Done sticker for the first poster to spot it!!

[John Harrington]

Oh Denise!

I do not expect I would ever let it go either, but if only your Ward Councillor had not annoyed so many members of the planning committee by personally attacking the integrity of the officers and the applicants it may have been refused.

Hi Aylestone Voice, I agree that planning officers do a bloody difficult job with no thanks and are often over ruled or disparaged by councillors but do you really think they take personal comments and slights (perceived or blatant) into consideration when the consider applications? On a related subject is there any truth in the rumour (anyone) that a former member of Herefordshire Council's Planning dept has gone to work for Bloor Homes? I suppose there is no reason why a planning officer who's supposed to have spent his career being objective shouldn't go and work for a mass house builder of the most generic kind but it would, if there was any truth in it, leave a very unpleasant taste in the mouth, would it not. I've always liked the idea of planning officers being particular, awkward and independent rather than with half an eye on a second career.

Once again, this is only a rumour but would pose an interesting question of ethics if there was any substance to it.

[John Harrington]

Oh Denise!

I do not expect I would ever let it go either, but if only your Ward Councillor had not annoyed so many members of the planning committee by personally attacking the integrity of the officers and the applicants it may have been refused.

Hi Aylestone Voice, I agree that planning officers do a bloody difficult job with no thanks and are often over ruled or disparaged by councillors but do you really think they take personal comments and slights (perceived or blatant) into consideration when the consider applications? On a related subject is there any truth in the rumour (anyone) that a former member of Herefordshire Council's Planning dept has gone to work for Bloor Homes? I suppose there is no reason why a planning officer who's supposed to have spent his career being objective shouldn't go and work for a mass house builder of the most generic kind but it would, if there was any truth in it, leave a very unpleasant taste in the mouth, would it not. I've always liked the idea of planning officers being particular, awkward and independent rather than with half an eye on a second career.

Once again, this is only a rumour but would pose an interesting question of ethics if there was any substance to it.

[Aylestone Voice]

John

In my limited experience the answer is yes. In the Kingstone case I believe the comments by the ward member did play a significant part in swaying members when they voted. You just have to look at other cases such as at Bartestree. There the planning officer recommended approval and the local member will have persuaded by using planning arguments the committee to chuck it out. In Kingstone as I am told the ward member concentrated on issues that were not relevant to planning thus seriously weakening his position.

As to your other point I don't know but surely as you suggest why shouldn't a public sector employee move to the private sector. What is important is that planning policy is followed when decisions are made

Apologies to Dippy/Colin as I am well off the thread here!

[John Harrington]

Hi Aylestone, thanks for the rapid response and info (and apologies to dippy myself for going off thread).

With regard to my second question I just feel that if it is the norm or common enough practice for planning officers, who I believe are generally people of integrity doing a thankless task, to take up jobs with the very building firms whose applications the may have previously adjudicated on I feel it might (might) encourage officers to look more kindly on potential future employers? Perhaps a cooling off period of a few years might be a better idea or a geographical caveat ie/no local planners allowed to work for builders in the county/authority they previously worked for. Just a thought. Sorry Dippy!

[megilleland]

Interesting document worth reading with 29 case studies. Notice that Herefordshire Council is not mentioned in this report, but may not have been in the original consultation group.

 

LOCAL AUTHORITY HERITAGE ASSETS: CURRENT ISSUES AND OPPORTUNITIES 

 

Report to English Heritage and the Heritage Lottery Fund 

 

By Green Balance with Grover Lewis Associates Ltd 

 

(extract)

Heritage properties owned by local authorities are an integral and widely enjoyed part of our surroundings. Not just the town halls, libraries, parks, theatres, schools, historic houses and swimming pools, but a huge range of lesser structures all contribute – war memorials, drill halls, barns, ancient monuments, clock towers, cemetery buildings, milestones, railings and much more. This research reviews the issues facing local authorities as they manage these properties at a time of acute financial stress. Information is assembled for the first time on heritage owned by a significant sample of authorities of all types, based on questionnaires completed by asset managers. This identifies too the recent patterns of closure, disposal and demolition of heritage assets and local authorities’ plans for the next five years. An appendix presents the database. 

 

The research reports on the trends in these issues, how they affect heritage properties and how local authorities respond. The benefits of repair, maintenance and keeping buildings in use are highlighted, together with special difficulties when heritage properties earn no income, have no alternative user, or are located in poorer areas where local authorities struggle to look after them. The current and likely future impacts of the economic downturn are identified. 

 

The degree of enthusiasm for disposing of heritage assets is examined, against the background of surplus premises, successive governments’ support for passing assets into the community for management, and the provisions of the Localism Act. The research also evaluates the capacity of the third sector to acquire heritage property from local government and how this capacity could be increased. Practice is reviewed of heritage asset disposal, transfer of day-to-day management and other partnerships, recipients, and the steps taken to safeguard the heritage interest after transfer. 

 

Numerous opportunities are presented to encourage local authorities in retained management and in asset disposal, illustrated with case studies of both good practice and cautionary tales.

 

Definition of heritage assets 

 

1.7 For the purpose of this study, heritage assets extend beyond the nationally important to include locally valued sites and features. The agreed definition was: 

 

• listed buildings; 

• other purpose-built public buildings dating from before 1939, such as town halls, swimming pools, park buildings and libraries; 

• pre-1914 industrial buildings and sites; 

• public open spaces such as parks, gardens and cemeteries (on English Heritage's Register of Historic Parks and Gardens or recognised locally as being of historic significance); 

• scheduled ancient monuments and other recognised archaeological sites; 

• monuments and memorials. 

 

Disposal, transfer and partnerships 

 

1.9 The terminology used to describe various levels of ‘disposal’ of heritage property by local authorities can be used by interested parties to mean different outcomes. This report keeps the familiar term ‘disposal’ as a generalised reference to occasions when a local authority seeks to divest itself of most or all responsibility for property. Asset ‘transfer’ describes the passage of a property to another party either by sale of the freehold or by sale of a long lease (typically 20 years or more – sufficient for the leaseholder to be able to take longer term decisions about investment and management). Long leases are sometimes preceded by short leases, perhaps of one to three years, to test out the potential viability of a property in new not-for-profit hands. 

 

1.10 Local authorities sometimes transfer the management or maintenance of a heritage asset to other parties, typically not-for-profit ventures, to operate property on the authority’s behalf. This could include activities such as opening the property to the public, monitoring its condition, publicity, fund-raising, and day-to-day repairs. The authority might retain responsibility for the fabric and insurance. This kind of devolved management is termed ‘partnership’ in this report. 

 

What with English Heritage saying that the Working Boys was not worth listing and the council not being consulted or interested in this report, no wonder there is little hope of saving any of the city's heritage for the future.

[Denise Lloyd]

Off topic sorry but John H he went to Savilles

[John Harrington]

Ah,o.k.Ta Denise.

[Cambo]

Hi dippy I don't know if you've seen this from off HWFRS website? But take a look @ wot there doing with Malvern fire station

Building and Infrastructure

The Service is working at the forefront of improving public services, at a time of considerable financial constraint. With our public sector partners in Herefordshire and Worcestershire, we are finding new ways of using our assets, such as land and buildings, in ways that are transforming how services are delivered. Finance & Assets Strategic Objectives 2013 – 2020 – Asset Management

Capital Projects

Progress through to completion the capital Fire Station Replacement Program and develop the Asset Management Strategy with a capital supported proactive maintenance program.

New Fire Stations and Collaboration with Other Public Sector Partners on Estates

The Service is a key partner in the Worcestershire Capital & Asset Property Steering Group. This group developed a single internet-based map of public sector property assets across Worcestershire, as part of the „Total Place‟ initiative. Following on from this, Worcestershire was awarded Accelerated Pathfinder status along with five other partnership areas in the UK. The Accelerated Pathfinder work developed a small number of opportunities presenting the potential for joint and collaborative use of public assets. The development of the joint Police and Fire Station at Bromsgrove is one of these projects and further collaborative opportunities are being explored with consideration towards shared facilities at other locations across the area.

Bromsgrove Police and Fire Station

It is anticipated that the new combined Fire and Police Station and DCP crewing system (which consists of normal crewing of the station during the day but with an additional on call element during the night), will go live simultaneously in spring 2014. The final selection of staff to work the new crewing system, contract, agreements and protocols should be completed by summer 2013, thus allowing sufficient time to manage the transfer and movement of staff and facilities in the interim period.

Malvern Fire Station

Construction work for a new Fire Station in Malvern commenced in May 2013, with a substantial re-design and development of the existing site. The Station staff, fleet and equipment have been temporarily relocated to our Operational Logistics site in Malvern, which has enabled significant savings to be made in equivalent temporary arrangements. The project is due for completion in early summer 2014.

Worcester Fire Station

A proposed design for a new Fire Station in Worcester was completed in March 2013 and it is hoped that an arrangement for the delivery of this project will be secured during the summer. The project includes vastly improved staff welfare arrangements and training facilities.

Property

Ensure that the Organisation‟s property portfolio is maintained to an acceptable standard and that improvement in safety, efficiency, sustainability and energy management are managed appropriately.

ICT

Ensure that critical systems are supported and that the ICT network is resourced appropriately to facilitate the needs of the organisation. To support the implementation and running of the next phase of development for the new Fire Control.

Procurement

To develop processes and systems which will ensure that the Organisation‟s procurement activity is compliant, ethical, competitive and provides best value.