Saving The Working Boys Home *UPDATE*

[dippyhippy]

Evening all!

Aylestone Voice and John, no apology is necessary......I am often guilty of going off at a tangent! I do it all the time, as my mind wanders from one subject to another!!

Cambo, I need to read and digest your post!!

Let me roll a smoke, and I'll get back to you....it's been a busy day!!

[dippyhippy]

I must apologise to anyone who has spent today looking at the WEN site, for news of an update - as we all know, the meeting is tonight!

I quite literally didn't know what day it was today....my thanks to Mark Hubbard for bringing back to planet earth!!

I shall endeavour to be a tad more on the ball tomorrow!

[Guest smartieno1]

Hi Guys,

I would like to add my ten-peneth worth:

I would much prefer to see the old fire station redeveloped into a community venue such as a Music venue:

 http://www.oldfirestation.co.uk/our_events.html

http://www.oldfirestation.org.uk/about-us/

http://www.headfirstbristol.co.uk/whats-on/the-old-fire-station

I know the friends of Castle Green have experience of saving old buildings and putting them to good use and I think this would be a good opportunity to set up a new Community Incorporated Organisation  or similar..

I think it could be time for Hereford to have a venue that was alcohol free such as this one in Liverpool:

http://thebrinkliverpool.com

And think how good that would be for the Youth as the venue would be unlicensed and unencumbered by the red tape issues that have plagued other venues in Hereford.

One other flip side of this would be the use of the Victory Pub for those who want alcohol with it being located over the road....so Councillor Kenyon this could be something you would want to support

The Working Boys home should also be preserved and turned into an eco-friendly living space in the heart of the City.......

http://www.greenhouseleeds.co.uk/environmentally-friendly-apartment-features

As for the new Fire-station.... the Wickes retail site is an ideal location or HUFC should the football club fold as this land belongs to the Council...

I wonder what you think??

 

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

Welcome smartieno 1. 

 

And what an absolutely cracking suggestion for starters: a live music venue on St Owen Street (I hardly imagine Cllr Kenyon's going to gripe about that!).

 

This city deperately needs the sort of venue that good established and up-and-coming groups would love to play in, instead of that giant biscuit tin sitting up there on Holmer Road (aka Hereford Leisure Centre).

 

I'll nominate you as the new live music centre's first manager!

[Guest smartieno1]

I love you Grid Knocker 

[Cambo]

Yes I think that's a wonderful idea & would be good for business's in that part of town with car parking close by,4 car parks in that area! Plus Hereford doesn't have a place to hold regular gigs in for main stream bands etc? So yes smartieno for manager?!

[bobby47]

Lads, that's a really great idea. Wish I'd thought of that! Mind, when your out of your mind on diazepam and you've a belly full of ale, its hardly surprising that you never get any good ideas.

Not only could it be a venue for live music, it could also be a place for the kids to display and sell their artwork from the Art College. It'd be a place that was vibrant, interesting and bring communities together.

Well done. Brilliant!

[Cambo]

Who said you don't have any good ideas bobby?…cos you just add some good ones right there!

[Guest smartieno1]

It could also be used to hold community meetings for free.....and become a recovery hub in the day for those wanting to quit booze and drugs Bobby 47 lol

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

To nobody's great surprise, Item 14 of yesterday's H&WFA's Resources Committee meeting (to press ahead with the 'land swap') was approved.  As Mandy Rice Davies might have observed had she been in Worcester last night: "Well they would say that, wouldn't they?"  The 14 April meeting of Herefordshire Council's Cabinet will be a rubber-stamping formality.

 

So can we all go home?  Errr...not yet, peeps.  A few questions need answering first.  Like:-

 

If the H&WFA has been actively seeking a suitable site for its new fire station for a decade, how come all they were offered (apart from the boys home) by Geof Hughes' huge property empire, was a site on the Three Elms Business Park, a pocket-handkerchief plot off the Link Road and a building site out at Rotherwas? Even someone with Roger Phillips' IQ knows Rotherwas is hardly 'central city'. Informed sources say the firemen were never asked whether they would be interested in the huge site at the rear of the Odeon on Commercial Road, which is perfectly placed for access to the proposed Link Road.

 

How on earth did the council (which has a property division - it even employs someone called Director of Corporate Asset Management ffs!) ever allow the Bath Street offices to get into such a state of disrepair?

 

Why, when it could see the Bath Street buildings would be surplus to its requirements, didn't it go out and canvass expressions of interest from the sort of developers who would have taken on these Victorian buildings (asbestos and all) to convert them into flats or apartments, as happened with the old General Hospital?

 

Why, when even its own tourism guru Sir Ben Gill has told them that more bed spaces are urgently needed in the city centre, did the council never advertise the boys home as potentially-convertible into a 30-bedroom hotel?

 

And did the supine Hereford Civic Society ever appeal English Heritage's arrogant ruling that the former Working Boys Home was of insufficient architectural merit to be listed - or enlist the help of local MP Jesse Norman?

 

Since the notorious 'land swap' is a decision affecting the disposal of a council asset, let's hope the Scrutiny & Overview Committee will call this decision in and that some of the above questions will be answered. It will be stuffed with Tory yes-men (it always is), but that doughty double-act of Alan Seldon and Liz Harvey should have some of the witnesses squirming.

[Mark Hubbard]

Hi Guys,

 

I have been following your discussions and agree that you have come up with some very good and creative ideas!  Not quite sure who pays for them all or how you turn them into projects with a sustainable future - after all, bills all need paying and I am fast learning it is an uphill struggle with the work I am doing on the Castle Green. You need a small group of people with a real commitment and with the time & energy to plough into making things actually happen.

 

I have also been reflecting on John Venn, the man who founded the working boys home and gave the land behind it to Hereford City Council to build "quality houses for the poor" - what is now known as the Portfields Estate.  I am always very impressed with how lovely the Portfields Estate is and think John Venn would have been pleased with his donation. Whilst many of the houses have now been sold to their occupants (thanks to Maggie T), there are still a significant number of houses in social housing management - continuing to provide social housing for people in challenging circumstances.

 

So what would he have thought about the site of his working boys home in 2014?  He was quite a radical in his time - standing up for the poor and dispossessed, but he was also a pragmatist. He was a practical christian of his day - rolled his sleeves up and got on with delivering services to those that needed them, famous for his soup kitchens and providing hope for orphaned children from poor backgrounds.

 

So I pose a question - would John Venn have wanted his building to be sold to a private developer to be converted to private houses for people who could afford them? Or would he have wanted his asset to continue to serve the public in whatever way could be found?

[Mark Hubbard]

Further cogitations on "strategic asset management" (goodness I have come over all reflective!):

 

It does my head in that large organisations seem to have completely lost sight of the "reduce, reuse, recycle" mantra. Indeed I think we as a society have lost touch with that way of living. It is perhaps one of the reasons behind the really significant challenges our civilisation faces.  Our use of resources is far outstripping what the world can provide.

 

So in my head it doesn't make sense that two buildings that form part of our street scape in Hereford should be completely razed to the ground. But this is the approach the whole world is taking at the moment. Is it the fault of the officers of the council and fire service that this appears to be the most economic and sensible way forward, when this is the approach being taken across the world?

 

I too try to take a practical, "role my sleeves up" & "get my hands dirty" sort of approach to life.  I have tried to turn juggernauts and have been run over (memories of the battle over ESG), but by doing so you significantly influence the bigger agenda. There are small victories on the way, which you have to make do with.  The most important thing is not to give up.  Keep up the pressure!

[Cambo]

How about trying for sum lottery funding? Also a lot of music venues have sponsorships, O2 seem to do a lot of that maybe we can get local business involved? I'm no expert @ this sort of thing but maybe someone out there is & could offer advice & help?

[dippyhippy]

I am so very disappointed.

We all knew this was a long shot, but it's still the news we didn't want to hear. Grid Knocker is correct in saying that we still want answers to many questions surrounding this whole sorry affair.

Thanks to everybody who has participated and contributed to this thread. I didn't for one minute think that this amount of interest would be generated, it just goes to show that there are many folk in Hereford who do care deeply about this city.

[Mark Hubbard]

Sorry Dippy was it my post that disappointed you?

 

there is more I have to say about my meeting with the Leader, my conversation with the Chief Fire Officer and a report back from the Policy & Resources Committee of the Fire Service.  But I just do not have time just now - I have a meeting of the Friends of Castle Green in 15 minutes and I need to prepare.  Will try and post before the night is out.

[Cambo]

Listen it ain't over till the fat lady sings!…& I don't hear her singing yet! The next step is planning plus my old mate grid knocker is weaving is literacy magic as we speak on alternative site which I'm planning on handing to mr Johnson bramer & prodger personally! Now this may have no effect but I'm going to do it anyway!

[Denise Lloyd]

Cambo well done and good luck with your efforts 

[Cambo]

Thank you Denise

I think I'm gonna need all the luck in world? But nothing ventured nothing gained & miracles do happen cos it says so in the Bible just ask Jesus?…now where's Brian I need to borrow his gourd!! Oh & does anyone know where the PFJ hang out these days?

[dippyhippy]

Hi Mark!

Sorry, should have made my comment clearer!

I am not disappointed in your post, not at all-its item 14 being approved that disappoints me. As Cambo says, its not all over.....it just didn't go the way I had hoped.

Never mind! We will battle on, and hope that all is not lost!

[Cambo]

Just copied this from worcester evening news

 

WORCESTER'S iconic fire station is finally going onto the market - amid hopes it could be sold for a massive sum to create a new chapter in the city's history.

 

The existing site in Copenhagen Street is due to be vacated in 2015 once a new state-of-the-art facility is built at the Great Western Business Park.

 

The historic site has served the fire service for more than 70 years, and is located in a superb spot opposite Worcester College of Technology.

 

Members of the fire authority have agreed that it can be sold, with a marketing campaign set to launch to highlight the building's potential.

 

 

Hopes are high that it can deliver a huge, seven-figure sum for the cash-strapped fire service and be put to good use by new owners.

 

It sits a few feet from the Guildhall, Worcester's High Street and is just yards from the riverside.

 

During a meeting of the fire authority's policy and resources committee, councillors said selling it to the right bidder is vital.

 

Councillor Derek Prodger, the chairman, said: "From a city council perspective there's a plan to regenerate the centre of Worcester.

 

"For obvious reasons the city would very much like to be involved in the sale of this site.

 

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"We need to make sure we all work together for the benefit of the whole city on this."

 

Other members urged senior officers to take it slow, saying the property market could be much stronger in future years.

 

Councillor Philip Gretton said: "I just hope we don't sacrifice a better capital receipt because we need this money now.

 

"We need to make sure, if need be that we are prepared to wait even if it takes a year."

 

Treasurer Martin Reohorn said it could take "18 months" or longer if the right offer does not come along immediately.

 

Chief fire officer Mark Yates said: "We'll be seeking the best deal we can get for the public."

 

The committee voted to authorise a sale, with the next stage getting an independent valuation from an agent.

 

A marketing campaign would then launch aimed at enticing interest from developers.

 

The new base, at the Great Western Business Park off Tolladine Road, will contain top class facilities in a 20,000 sq ft facility.

 

It will have storage areas, offices, lecture space and even training rooms for the Young Firefighters Association to encourage careers on the frontline.

[dippyhippy]

Evening Cambo, sorry I didn't get around to replying further last night, I am afraid tiredness got the better of me!

I am slightly surprised that Malvern have managed, what we in Hereford obviously cannot.

"Substantial redesign and development of existing site" I appreciate that they appear to have had another station to work from, they say themselves that this saved money as they didn't have to find temporary premises......but it can be done!

This is what should be happening here. There is no reason, from what I have been told why the existing site should not be upgraded and improved.

 

With regard to the Hereford Civic Society, they seem reluctant to appeal English Heritages decision, can we?

As a group who feel so strongly about saving The Working Boys Home, are we able to challenge this?

 

The longer this thread is up, the more alternative uses for this building are being suggested.

 

 

And now we see what Worcester are planning to do........

 

I need more wine, and another smoke whilst I contemplate that!

[dippyhippy]

Reassured to know that Chief Officer Mark Yates is saying "We'll be seeking the best deal we can get for the public."

Hmmmm........if anybody knows how to secure a good deal its Mark!!

[Cambo]

Yes just in case he ever needs another back operation it would come in hand then?

[Cambo]

Yea there looking for a seven figure sum for worcester fire station & are willing to wait a year to 18 months to secure the right deal for the public.

there lucky HC are not involved in getting the best deal cos there be no chance of that ever happening?!

[dippyhippy]

Precisely!

[John Harrington]

Guys, just a thought with reference to something both Dippy and Mark mention. It might be an idea to have sight of the originals title deeds of the Working Boys Home or any other docs relating to John Venn's bequest (technically his 'devise' as it relates to real property which includes physical property as opposed to personal items). These would probably be held at the Record's Office and no doubt may at present be packed up awaiting the move to the new premises but I am sure access to them could still be requested (or even demanded).

It may come to nothing but if someone (or a few) had the time to see the deeds and any restrictions concerning the properties use after it passes out of control of the Council may be helpful.  

[Biomech]

So what is the deal with the idiots who run this city then? Serious question, how does this work, they are VERY clearly inept, who do they answer to? Surely there is someone above them that can look down and say "f*** me, what the f*** are you doing, you're all fired"? I don't subscribed to the notion that it's merely down to public votes. Someone in central government should be able to step in and clear them out for being unsuitable for the job.

[John Harrington]

God God Biomech, you startled me, I thought I was the only one awake! Put down that bottle and go to bed!

 

I agree entirely with your point though. I think it is time we perhaps looked at a group being formed to start examining Council activity at every level, with a mind to reporting irregularities to the relevant authority for further examination. The problem is this takes time and effort. Nothing worth doing is easy.  

[Guest smartieno1]

I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a very good friend and we spoke about the need for a small fire station both sides of the river due to the road situation around Hereford

His suggestion was a joint Fire/Ambulance station at Grafton land is already owned and a smaller station with direct access to town and the surrounds and the Wickes site would be ideal as it offers access to High Town via a hopefully unblocked Widemarsh Street.....

As for Councillor Hubbards comments on recycling, re-using ect....the Council are very good at telling the little people how to behave whilst doing exactly the opposite themselves and until you and your fellow elected members in IOC start leading by example on things such as new Computers I will have little respect for any of you....

As for funding... have you thought about you and your fellow IOC members donating 50% of your expenses to local charity projects such as the Friends ect....I wonder how much that would give to good causes and think about the shame and embarrassment you could cause to all the other fat pigs who get rich off the back of the public purse!

ps I can't wait to get elected in 2015 cos I am going to completely expose the dirty deals and crooked shenanigans that passes for local politics these days.....and I will be standing on a platform of giving away all of the expenses I do not need to local good causes...whilst putting decisions such as this one out to a proper public debate to let the people decide what's best for them not some jumped up preening, superficial Peacock such as Councillor Johnson or his cronies

anyway cant rant for ever.....

Salus populi suprema lex esto

[Colin James]

So what is the deal with the idiots who run this city then? Serious question, how does this work, they are VERY clearly inept, who do they answer to? Surely there is someone above them that can look down and say "f*** me, what the f*** are you doing, you're all fired"? I don't subscribed to the notion that it's merely down to public votes. Someone in central government should be able to step in and clear them out for being unsuitable for the job.

 

Hmm I had similar thoughts, so who ultimately is accountable? when wrong decisions are made or when things go wrong or do things like that just fall at the feet of everyone in the hope that equal disbursement will go unnoticed.