Do we really need more houses!

[bobby47]

Why are we really building so many houses. It ain't the fault of the ageing population who are the ones the establishment like to blame when it comes to explaining why our overstretched public services are crumbling under the pressure of demand. Surely, we can't blame the ageing population again and again for all our woes.

The ageing population are not responsible for the high demand for housing which is driving up the cost of rent and affecting each and everyone of us who live within our fragile economy.

It ain't the ageing population who cram a dozen people into one house and it ain't the ageing population who require the bin men to collect a dozen bin bags from one family home and one or possibly two from the homes of the ageing population.

My wife's a Nurse. She doesn't think the ageing population has anything to do with the fact that our Health Service is crumbling. She and her colleagues would never say its the fault of the ageing population who have become a burden on our society. In fact, many of our Health Care staff would say that it's nothing to do with the ageing population and more to do with thousands and thousands of people arriving in Hereford within a very short space of time that's brought about the havoc that has impacted upon us all.

So what happens to all the landlords who've invested huge sums of mortgaged money developing their properties if and when we get the chance to get out of the European Union. What will happen then? Surely, they can't blame the ageing population again. If it happens, and I pray to God it does and we get the opportunity not to become a satellite of East Europe and we exit the European Union, what happens to our housing market.

Yes, the rents will shoot downwards because the ageing population don't tend to rent, but what of the economic knock on factors. Well, many, many people who've ridden this housing bubble will suddenly find they can no longer fill their dwellings with dozens of people who are prepared to share a room with three or four strangers because the demand is no longer there. These entrepreneurial poor souls will suddenly find that they cannot make ends meet and they'll go bust.

And what'll happen to our local agricultural economy that is so dependent on the cheap labour that sees their employees sharing a room with a number of strangers and causing the bin men to work harder and the Health Service to blame the ageing population for its predicament. Well, my guess is it'll destroy this economic success story that sees thousands and thousands of highly qualified people picking fruit for a pittance so that they can live in a room they share with complete strangers.

And round and round we go. Despite the obvious. Despite the clear leanings toward exiting the European Union, still, even now, we choose to build houses for thousands of people who may not be resident here in Hereford after I get my chance to say, 'I want to get out of the European Union'.

The tragedy is, despite my deep need to get out of this madness so that our Natuonal Health Service can be saved, I know that we in Hereford will pay a terrible economic price for pinning our hopes on a vast legion of cheap workers who only ever wanted to become wealthier than they once were.

So here we are! Building houses, haemorraging the talents of our local children who've long since moved away, paying pi.ss poor wages and paying sky high rents so that our fruit can get picked quickly and cheaply!

Makes you think don't it!

[Biomech]

No, not in my opinion, build more houses and we'll get even more people demanding to be given a house. 
It's quite clear that there is only really 1 type of people who come to Hereford to live now

[stupidfrustration]

Do you mean retirees? 

[bobby47]

Folks this is serious. It's of no little consequence to us all if and when we manage to rid ourselves of the European Union. There will be a huge economic cost to pay.

Thousands of our migrant brothers and sisters will remain here in Hereford and I hope they do. Now they are here and they've hopefully found in life what they've been looking for, I wouldn't want to see them repatriated. I want them to stay and be happy in their new homeland. But,...and this is the thing, they ain't going to want to pick fruit, process chicken and wash cars for the rest of their lives. They'll move on to better things. So who picks the fruit? And that's the problem we have because eventually, once we are out of the European Union, nobody will want to pick the fruit, strangle a chicken and wash my hatchback.

Our economy, for the most part is driven by a vast cheap labour migrant workforce. There Labours have made our agricultural economy integral to our future. But, it's a future based upon low skills, low pay and a bludgeoning affect upon our fragile public services and if and when this agricultural Hereford market does collapse the consequences to all of us are beyond my imagination.

When we do get out of this Union our public services will recover and our pounds earned will no longer be haemorraged and be sent away to a foreign economy. Our money will be recycled within our own economy and that'll only be a good thing for local traders and local business, but sadly it'll have no impact on our kids who will continue to get their education here then leave and spend that education in another County who don't pick fruit, don't strangle chickens and don't mind driving around in a dirty car.

Whichever way this is cut, I see nothing but misery for us. I see out migrant friends, tiring of their old low paid jobs and I see them doing exactly the same as our young kids. Moving away. Yes they will. In time, when all things will change, they'll move away to get better jobs that pay more. And what of all the houses we've built. What of all the rooms rented out. What of all the Housing Association houses now occupied by migrants, well they'll begin to empty. The rents in Hereford will continue to plummet, homes will be repossessed and vast numbers of dwellings will be gathered up by big business who'll have their eye on a commercial chance to make more money from us.

In the meantime, bees purchased from Italy to help pollinate our orchards, well they won't be needed because theres no one left to pick the fruit and the decline goes on and on and forever downwards.

Mind, if our luck changes and The Ukraine settles down we can get the golden opportunity to sit on some production line helping to construct a bomb that'll eventually get dropped on my Grandson's head because he left Hereford to get a better wage, joined the Army and now finds himself fighting in a conflict between Belarus and Russia who both want different things.

Course, none of this helps our housing market that sees hundreds of empty homes built around circa 2014 unoccupied because everyone is leaving.

So, why are we building so many houses?

[Denise Lloyd]

I have yet to be convinced that there is a massive house shortage in Herefordshire.  The Oval's residents were (of which there were many) were absorbed into other available properties.  There are houses on the market and up for rent and remain so for many months.  The needs of the ageing population or the retirees change as they become more infirm and  there is a "certain amount of natural wastage".  Many youngsters move away to find better paid jobs and better prospects.  The huge amount of seasonal workers are only looking for short term lettings some stay and make Hereford their home.  Are all these prospective houses purchasers or renters people who work out of the county?

 

So many PA's are being passed now for houses which of course is a very valuable income for HC.  Is this where the real need is?  

[Denise Lloyd]

The same can be said for industrial sized chicken houses.  So many PA's are being passed for them.  How many chicken houses do we actually need?  Mind you it is worth bearing in mind to apply for just one chicken house there is a fee of £10k. 

[stupidfrustration]

On a slightly different tangent - about EU's picking fruit - they have to do it as "our local" kids wont. 

 

Aspirations set too high for some of these young people or are they just too lazy to do it - or a bit of both? 

 

Either way - we will always need to have people collect the rubbish in Mcdonalds - and some people will only be able to do that type of job. 

No shame in it - maybe we have failed them in their education, maybe thats all they strive to be, but - right now - as an employer in Hereford, I see many many 18/19/20 year olds who think they are above some of the menial jobs that I have available for them. 

 

AND - that is a problem for the county. 

[megilleland]

Your quite right SF. I remember all my friends had Saturday jobs while at school and in the summer holidays we would go fruit picking. Slowly we moved through the education system into full time employment. However With the advent of reality and celebrity television and techno gadgets we see people who think they are the bees knees in this world where you are seen as clever if you do less and get paid more.

 

All the jobs that the government say are difficult to fill, because nobody here will do them, should carry a premium wage or benefit. After all the top jobs carry enhanced terms financially and beneficially, because we can't find the right candidate, so why not apply this to the fruit picker or toilet attendant.

 

Not too long ago a farmer from Church Stretton wrote into the Hereford Times saying that his foreign workers were earning £900 a week. Had he advertised those jobs, with expected earnings for local job seekers, I am sure he needn't have looked abroad.

[bobby47]

My point ain't about the work ethic of our migrant brethren. They are brilliant. A chap I fish with is Polish, he's a highly educated college lecturer and he's picking fruit. My point is, what happens when the door is closed, my Polish fishing mate tires of picking fruit and he clears off. And he will. If I had his ability I certainly would be thinking of moving on. He and I talk regularly to one another and when the door is closed he intends to become a British National and get back to lecturing students about the joys of chemistry.

He is picking fruit and he ain't going to stay here and pick our bloody fruit forever. He and many others will eventually leave, and just like our indigenous offspring, he and his family will move to another County where the wages and disposable income are higher.

He will leave his house as will many others and we'll end up with loads of bloody houses, rooms and bed sits empty because the demand has gone.

This is me bloody point. It's an economic one and its going to happen to us and it'll happen sooner than you all expect. We'll be knackered. Mind, thinking about it we've been knackered for years so perhaps I'm gibbering on about nothing.

[stupidfrustration]

Not too long ago a farmer from Church Stretton wrote into the Hereford Times saying that his foreign workers were earning £900 a week. Had he advertised those jobs, with expected earnings for local job seekers, I am sure he needn't have looked abroad.

 

 

Is he still recruiting? I can quit my job and go and pick fruit! 

 

Bobby - I hear what you are saying - but - the UK population is growing. We wont be leaving the EU - that is mastered by people much higher up the ranks the Cameron. 

When the current crop of EU citizens leave Hereford there will be a new country to take their place. 

Anyway - Hereford is growing : 

University

The Enterprise zone

Currently - only 1.1% unemployment! 

 

Although I dont see it in my personal business as yet - Hereford is growing and im sure good things are to come in the next few years. 

[twowheelsgood]

The present housing boom means we've run out of materials already - bricks are on a minimum 30 week delivery and at least one manufacturer has closed their order books, bricklayers can demand £200 a day and all that has to be added into the selling price, fuelling the boom further, until the balloon pops.

[Roger]

These items of fruit/vegetables are indeed harvested by mainly foreign people ... I don't know what the percentage is but probably the numbers are very high ... I think the farms could not have expanded their businesses without them due to local apathy for that type of work.

 

I think tho that it has tipped so far in that direction that locals would not even apply to do that work as they would feel like a fish out of water ... I think the employers would also now prefer to stick with the safe option ~ that seems to work for them. The pay, allegedly, can be high but also there is not much chance of advancement ... 

[megilleland]

Not too long ago a farmer from Church Stretton wrote into the Hereford Times saying that his foreign workers were earning £900 a week. Had he advertised those jobs, with expected earnings for local job seekers, I am sure he needn't have looked abroad.

 

 

Is he still recruiting? I can quit my job and go and pick fruit! 

 

Here is his letter - give him a ring!

[stupidfrustration]

On second thoughts - I think my hands are more for "paper pushing" 

[Jonny]

Herefordshire has an interesting houseing market, We have the 2nd lowest wages in the country after myther tyfil (have i spelt that right?) and some of the most expensive houseing in the country if you take london and the south east out of the equation.

So what does this mean? 2 things, There is great demand for houses here -  people want to live here, reflected in house prices. 2nd they are NOT being bought by local people - they can't afford them.

 

A few more of my worthless toughts..

I travel around the country a lot with my job, I have to do that to earn a decent wage which i can't get locally, and let me tell you most if the UK is a DUMP, I come back to the ford and its is a wonderful place! People from all over the country come to live in this county becuase they want to escape from the dump that is there rest of the uk and they bring their fabulous weath (by our standards) with them. But they play in a different marketplace to the localy, They buy up all the rural cottages, big manor houses, ex-farm houses, detached house in desirable villages etc. Then the localls are forced out and made to live in the city and market towns in small overpriced affordable houseing becuase they are prices out of their rural communitys.

 

Following on from earlier posts, i can see the second market, the small overpriced urban housing collapsing in value if we leave the eu and cheap leabour supply dries up. But the exclusive rural market will continue to thrive at an amazing rate.

[Roger]

 

Population forecast graph for Herefordshire ... Suggests there'll be 13% more people living here in about 20 years time than there are now. However I think the forecast is partly based on an assumption that people will live here because houses will be built. It's rather like building a new road. You just know it will be driven on immediately ... 

 

Facts & Figures about Herefordshire

[twowheelsgood]

Important to look at the graph with the notes;

 

• Population forecasts are highly dependent on assumed levels of future housing: the 2006-based forecasts were based on a planned 16,600 new homes between 2006 and 2026, whilst the 2010-based and 2011-based forecasts are based on an anticipated supply of 16,500 between 2011 and 2031.

•The 2010-based forecasts were based on indicative population estimates that ONS published before the results of the 2011 Census became available.  They suggested that immigration to Herefordshire had been significantly underestimated since 2006.  This demographic trend could not have been built into the 2006-based population forecasts as there was no evidence available at the time.

 

Also worth noting that dramatic rise in the top line is for 85+ year olds - sure as anything they won’t be buying new houses but they will be one massive demand on the Council's resources. It's a ticking bomb.

[Biomech]

How can anyone discuss a shortage of housing when so many sit empty?

Fill what we have, THEN let's talk about building more.

 

And while I have no problem with legal immigrants, you simply cannot deny that the difference in cultures leads to unwanted side effects such as over stuffing house and this "care free" attitude to doing what one likes. With streets becoming majority EU, and other migrants blocking roads with their second hand, ex postal / tesco vans etc, there IS a problem. And each problem has a knock on effect. You over stuff houses, that increase the number of vehicles per household and, with not enough space to accommodate so many imported vehicles, the roads and streets become blocked and packed to the brim.

Now you could argue that more houses will fix that - it won't, it will just compound the issue and it boils down to differences in cultural attitudes. I'm sure immigrants don't intend to pi*% people off, because that behaviour is commonplace in their country. 

 

We, as a country, don't have the capacity for so many people. The NHS, housing, the economy can't support it, no matter how politicians spin it. Immigrants move to the UK. Often pack 10 in a house made for 4. Bringing their own vehicles with them - so our motor industry suffers (hell, even we go abroad to buy cars because it's cheaper), we've seen a boom in migrant specific shops opening, the stock is imported from abroad, the profits are sent back. So money earnt in the UK *is* leaving the country.

Of course not all of them (most of them I find to be very polite and hard working), but this is an observable fact.

[Biomech]

I travel around the country a lot with my job, I have to do that to earn a decent wage which i can't get locally, and let me tell you most if the UK is a DUMP,

 

 

 

If work allowed it, I'd move to Cardiff.

[Jonny]

 

Also worth noting that dramatic rise in the top line is for 85+ year olds - sure as anything they won’t be buying new houses but they will be one massive demand on the Council's resources. It's a ticking bomb.

 

This is a real big problem, its unfair to Herefordshire council cos people are coming here to retire, escape to the country style, and then depending on a local adult social care system they did not pay intoe. I see only 1 solution and that is to nationalise adult social care.

[Denise Lloyd]

 

1 hour ago

"There are over 600,000 empty homes in England. Let us know if you see any on your way home! http://bit.ly/1pAODK0 

 

This has been posted on Twitter by the CPRE."

 

I can count 7 empty homes within a quarter mile radius of me

 

•  

[greenknight]

This county continues to be a target for retirement which will only increase forcing prices up.Most of these "escape to the country" programmes highlight Herefordshire. An additional concern now is the second home crowd as Dorset,Devon, Cornwall and Cotswolds are proving longer to drive too and expensive to acquire.

Whether our retired gentry have money or not looking after our 70 plus crew in this county is the single biggest welfare issue for the next twenty years. The only jobs in the HT will continue to be for carers. Will we become a massive retirement home??

[Clarkester]

Denise, further to your count.  There are at least 3, nice 3 bed semi's within less than 1/10 mile of my house.

2 for sale, 1 to let.

[megilleland]

15 October 2014 Herefordshire Council News

Changes to housing allocations policy reduces current demand for housing

    

Following recent changes to the way affordable housing is allocated, the number of people registered to be rehoused across the county has reduced dramatically from over 5,000 to below 1,000.

 

As a result, those who are registered as being in need of affordable housing are being offered accommodation more quickly.  However, the council is concerned that there may be people who are in need but are not coming forward or going through the proper application process and are therefore failing to become registered.

 

The county’s affordable housing is for households that cannot afford to buy or rent off the open market.  Residents of all ages currently living and/or working in Herefordshire are eligible to register for affordable housing if they have a housing need and meet the criteria.

 

To help people with their housing options, everyone seeking advice and assistance, including those who are currently a housing association tenant, must complete an enhanced housing options questionnaire online which will provide suitable options depending on circumstances. If affordable housing is an option, an online application form can be completed.  To complete registration applicants must provide Home Point with the appropriate supporting documentation (e.g. proof of residency, income and savings).

 

Councillor Graham Powell, cabinet member for health and wellbeing said: “Demand for housing is greater than ever, so it is really important that when allocating affordable housing, priority is given to the households that have the greatest need.†

 

“Since we changed our allocations policy to reflect this, we have found that many are not getting through the process of applying for housing because they are failing to provide the documentation that is requested.â€

 

“Applying for affordable housing is a three step process and everyone needs to go through this properly.  I am concerned that some households are not doing this and are therefore not getting through the system, regardless of whether they have need or not.  I would urge anyone struggling with the application process or are in need of assistance to contact Home Point or visit the info centre in Hereford for help.â€

 

People can contact Home Point online at www.home-point.info, ring 01432 260300 or visit the council’s information centre, Franklin House, Commercial Street, Hereford between the hours of 10am and 3pm Monday to Friday.  They can access the internet at libraries, the information centre at Franklin House or via Home Point’s partner organisations.

 

Where have the other 4000 gone - looking for the necessary documents?

[ragwert]

Do they not read what they put down in words as that statement simply does not make ant sense, 4,000 people have disappeared from the waiting list but  Graham Powell says demand for housing is greater than ever 

[Denise Lloyd]

He has to say the last bit to justify HC passing all these PA's for housing developments throughout the country.  House building pays the bills. 

 

This money isn't just paid over for each house built enormous sums of money are paid over on the 106 monies.  Both of these just inflate of the price of a house.

[dippyhippy]

Has anybody heard any up dates on those worrying rumours about the allocation of homes at The Furlongs development???

 

That all seems to have gone rather quiet of late.......