Denise Lloyd Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Proportional growth is what is needed and I think most people would settle for that. People including me are just overwhelmed with the speed that everything is being pushed through. Core strategy aims for at least 16.5k houses by year 2031 not immediataely. That equates to 1000 per year and that figure could quietly get absorbed throughout a year. Not rocket science . This is exactly where this Council is letting it's folk down by not controlling the growth and having not put in place a housing supply land list and not being 100% honest and transparent in their dealings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Martin Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 The clue being in the word "better". I mostly oppose these schemes on social and economic rather than conservation grounds and with the greatest respect, you still don't seem to grasp that building roads won't solve the problem and provide poor value for money. I don't make this stuff up. Google "SACTRA - Trunk Roads and The Generation of Traffic" which deals with the phenomenon on trunk and local networks and take your pick from the plethora of reports on this. Professor Phil Goodwin's are particularly useful for analyses of traffic growth on "improved" roads. Neither am I suggesting doing nothing but sometimes it's not the "simple shapes and primary colours" solutions that are most effective but those with a little more subtlety.There is nothing inevitable about traffic growth. It is not an inexorable law of the universe that rising affluence will result is more car use: it has resulted because policy has driven it. From the time North Sea oil came on stream, and Ernest Marples commissioned Beeching's report and pushed road expansion to benefit Marples Ridgeway, it has been engineered by vested interests that want to perpetuate and profit from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Proportional growth is what is needed and I think most people would settle for that. People including me are just overwhelmed with the speed that everything is being pushed through. Core strategy aims for at least 16.5k houses by year 2031 not immediataely. That equates to 1000 per year and that figure could quietly get absorbed throughout a year. Not rocket science . This is exactly where this Council is letting it's folk down by not controlling the growth and having not put in place a housing supply land list and not being 100% honest and transparent in their dealings. It's never going to happen not in this County Denise we have a local example here in Tupsley/Hampton. It's pretty much a year now since Gladman Developments got planning for 100 homes here. Since then they have sold on the 'package' to Barratt who have just submitted a request for amendments, a decision on which won't be made until August. Even if accepted whose to say they won't start building until early 2016. That's just 100 home. It could be the back end of 2016/7 before completed. Just one other thing purely from a commercial standpoint it would not be in the interest of these companies to flood the local housing market with new boxes because it could affect the selling prices particularly when the industry or governments both nationally and locally are unsure about economic development. Yes there's been a lot of talk about housing numbers and sure just at this time if I was a builder I'd want to get my name down however building them well that's another story altogether. This won't stop the increase in our traffic though because external factors outside this County are now playing a part in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 The clue being in the word "better". I mostly oppose these schemes on social and economic rather than conservation grounds and with the greatest respect, you still don't seem to grasp that building roads won't solve the problem and provide poor value for money. I don't make this stuff up. Google "SACTRA - Trunk Roads and The Generation of Traffic" which deals with the phenomenon on trunk and local networks and take your pick from the plethora of reports on this. Professor Phil Goodwin's are particularly useful for analyses of traffic growth on "improved" roads. Neither am I suggesting doing nothing but sometimes it's not the "simple shapes and primary colours" solutions that are most effective but those with a little more subtlety. There is nothing inevitable about traffic growth. It is not an inexorable law of the universe that rising affluence will result is more car use: it has resulted because policy has driven it. From the time North Sea oil came on stream, and Ernest Marples commissioned Beeching's report and pushed road expansion to benefit Marples Ridgeway, it has been engineered by vested interests that want to perpetuate and profit from it. Heh Amanda I do grasp the nettle so to speak after all how many comparisons can be whipped out a medical bag particularly in reference to bypass,stenosis,preventative mechanisms and so on. Reports,analysis,thesis are all very well however in this world today the car is the definitive method of transport and until such time as we find a different way of getting about this won't change and the number of vehicles on UK roads will increase along with population growth. Another sad irony is that I have family friends whose children remain at home as they move into their late twenties because they can't afford a place of their own so what do these young adults do. Well they go out and purchase a perceived better mode of transport because they don't have the financial commitments of house or family to worry about. What might have been a fuel efficient family saloon becomes a sports coupe. I'm sure that many an individual has provided thought provoking studies on sustainable ways on getting about however we are but a fickle race and for many just having a decent phone and four wheels is all some care about particularly if owning your own home is just an unrealistic dream. That's our true western ideology sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Well Greenknight it is comforting to see Hereford CITY Council have objected to the extra 10 houses and ALSO to this PA must have a look who is on the City Council who is at last showing some sense. Gladmans only secure the site for planning and then they move on to another "victim". They also only charge if they have gained planning permission they are ruthless. The developers rule as I have said in a previous post. It would be encouraging if a law was introduced that if developers who get planning permission then sit on the site to manipulate the housing market are compelled to pay a penalty for each day that they do not start work. There are no end of sites in the country where the deveopers are sitting waiting and manipulating the housing market. They rule and it should be stopped forthwith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Well Greenknight it is comforting to see Hereford CITY Council have objected to the extra 10 houses and ALSO to this PA must have a look who is on the City Council who is at last showing some sense. Gladmans only secure the site for planning and then they move on to another "victim". They also only charge if they have gained planning permission they are ruthless. The developers rule as I have said in a previous post. It would be encouraging if a law was introduced that if developers who get planning permission then sit on the site to manipulate the housing market are compelled to pay a penalty for each day that they do not start work. There are no end of sites in the country where the deveopers are sitting waiting and manipulating the housing market. They rule and it should be stopped forthwith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I don't disagree Denise. My ideal would be to reduce the number of new houses and increase garden or open spaces that come with them but as you say they will sit on sites or prod away at the local planning authority until they give in and ok 5 or 10 more.. I recently took a trip down to a new development at Ross just off the old A40. Properties for families they are not..green space what green space. The brochure never looks like the finished article and I do believe this County deserves better as there is the space and the right balance can be achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 It's also worth noting that within the same period of time land has been earmarked within South Worcestershire for over 30,000 houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Whilst this topic is about the need for the Southern Link Road and the associated housing that will be needed to pay for it, what has happened to "sustainable" development. If this can happen elsewhere in Europe why not in Hereford? I heard at the Three Elms planning day when someone asked about what jobs these new homeowners would do the audience was told by the planners that the houses would be bought mainly by people moving to Herefordshire for retirement. Someone then asked about the higher value jobs that all this "growth" in roads and houses would bring and the audience was told that local people would be employed to maintain the gardens and clean the windows of these new homeowners. Sorry that is not my idea of sustainable growth and better jobs prospects for our young people. If all the new homeowners are people retiring to Herefordshire surely this just puts more pressure on the hospital and the adult social services, which Mr Johnson keeps telling us is the biggest cost to the County. How is any of this "sustainable"? Surely if there is money from developers it will be needed for health care not new roads if this is the type of population Herefordshire is going to be attracting. Instead of cycle paths surely we will need safe routes for mobility scooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Sadly Maggie I can quite believe this was said and if you enquire into your local estate agent they will give you an idea of where their clients are coming from which is why many now have arrangements with agents in Birmingham or London. New builds situated within the periphery of Hereford a relatively low crime county with glorious views and day trips to the country what more would any retired person want than to see out their days in peace and quiet. Two people from the south east could purchase a significant four bedder (for when the grandchildren stay) and so long as there are enough gardeners and general tradesmen that's all that is required thanks very much!! I'm being a little fececious but I actually believe this is where this County is going and many want it this way because it won't hurt our environment and we won't need massive infrastructure changes except we forget about health and social care provision of course. We are to become a glorified retirement project where the only jobs will be in those areas described already. I feel very sorry for the young people in this County. Let's see if similar comments are made at the Kindle Centre this Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Does anybody know if there is to be a panel and question time at the meeting on Friday. Or is it to be a free for all. Or even an Agenda perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Martin Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't disagree Denise. My ideal would be to reduce the number of new houses and increase garden or open spaces that come with them but as you say they will sit on sites or prod away at the local planning authority until they give in and ok 5 or 10 more.. I recently took a trip down to a new development at Ross just off the old A40. Properties for families they are not..green space what green space. The brochure never looks like the finished article and I do believe this County deserves better as there is the space and the right balance can be achieved. Spot on Maggie May and green knight. The contradictions expose either the dishonesty or extreme confusion in the thinking. My suspicion is that they will come up with any rationalisation because they can't say what they're really thinking: that they don't really care about the consequences provided it all makes a profit. Denise, there's no formal agenda. I'm going to talk a bit about the historical backdrop of it all and Anthony Powers will speak about the progress of the Southern Link Road in the Council chamber and I'm hoping to follow up with some slides of one of my study trips to the Netherlands. John Harrington will chair the meeting and there will be plenty of opportunity for people to air their views: there's nothing worse than going to a gig like this and being told to keep your contributions in question form and limited to 140 characters. Some of the recently formed Three Elms Action group may come along - the housing plans are bound up with the transport issues and I agree with what you both say. I'm not this humourless in real life by the way. I fear if I say the words "induced traffic" one more time, green knight might have to run me over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloudberry Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 If there's no formal agenda, please don't let this important transport issues meeting (Kindle, Friday evening) just become a big rant. What do you want to get out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 If there's no formal agenda, please don't let this important transport issues meeting (Kindle, Friday evening) just become a big rant. What do you want to get out of it? I absolutely agree Cloudberry I would like to hear the true cost of the road including CPO's everything. I would also like to hear material planning considerations for objecting to the PA. We know that it is to build many houses but is that a material planning consideration? I actually do not think it is. I wonder if any of the newly elected Ward Councillors will be putting in an appearance. Oh Amanda I have actually heard you speaking and you are an excellent public speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloudberry Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Good questions, Denise! The Southern Link Road is supposed to be part of the South Wye (Sustainable) Transport Package “The aim of the South Wye Transport Package is to: • Reduce congestion and delay • Enable access to developments such as the HEZ • Reduce the growth in emissions • Reduce traffic noise • Reduce accidents and • Encourage physical activity†But to my mind the Southern Link Road does not help with any of these aims, except help access to HEZ from the A465 for the very few who might need that route. Can this be discussed please? A discussion of bypasses and where/why they might or might not work will be very good! Also, how can we achieve a safe cycle route E-W across Hereford? Why can’t cyclists share more footpaths with pedestrians (bell mandatory!) without expensive work on cycle lanes?? What happened to the idea of a transport hub at the station, where you could move seamlessly between train and bus without having to lug your bags for miles? And possibly with a shuttle bus to the shops/restaurants? What other practical steps can be taken to help people not use their cars so much? (Bearing in mind that there are many elderly in Herefordshire who are not going to start cycling now!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dippyhippy Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Strangely, I've just put down a few ideas on the "Here's how our urban streets should look" thread! Improved cycle routes, safe routes to school, walking bus, and what about an edge of city car park for students at the college, with a regular bus running between it and the colleges? This could be partly funded by the colleges themselves and perhaps a permit system, for the students to use this facility?? The Tram Plan.... move it forward with a feasibility study. These are all relatively small, cost effective things which have the potential to make a huge difference. Let's give folk choices... at the moment, they don't really have alternatives. If half the folks who drive, left the car behind for half of their journeys across the city, this would have a very positive impact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I heard on the radio and have seen on the Hereford Times website the "rat running" happening in Mordiford, particularly by the primary school. Surely this is more of a problem and a danger to children and adults than the slow moving traffic on the A465 in Belmont at peak times? Will the Council look at improving the road situation on the East of Hereford with all the extra houses due to be built at Hampton Bishop and Bartestree. By the way today was a lovely day for not being in a car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Well Greenknight it is comforting to see Hereford CITY Council have objected to the extra 10 houses and ALSO to this PA must have a look who is on the City Council who is at last showing some sense. Gladmans only secure the site for planning and then they move on to another "victim". They also only charge if they have gained planning permission they are ruthless. The developers rule as I have said in a previous post. It would be encouraging if a law was introduced that if developers who get planning permission then sit on the site to manipulate the housing market are compelled to pay a penalty for each day that they do not start work. There are no end of sites in the country where the deveopers are sitting waiting and manipulating the housing market. They rule and it should be stopped forthwith! With perfect timing CPRE have published a report confirming the figures of house banking CPRE â€@CPRE 12 mins12 minutes ago Our new report finds 9 largest housing developers have 314,000 housing plots in strategic land banks. Find out more: http://ow.ly/NU4Kz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Well Greenknight it is comforting to see Hereford CITY Council have objected to the extra 10 houses and ALSO to this PA must have a look who is on the City Council who is at last showing some sense. Gladmans only secure the site for planning and then they move on to another "victim". They also only charge if they have gained planning permission they are ruthless. The developers rule as I have said in a previous post. It would be encouraging if a law was introduced that if developers who get planning permission then sit on the site to manipulate the housing market are compelled to pay a penalty for each day that they do not start work. There are no end of sites in the country where the deveopers are sitting waiting and manipulating the housing market. They rule and it should be stopped forthwith! With perfect timing CPRE have published a report confirming the figures of house banking CPRE â€@CPRE 12 mins12 minutes ago Our new report finds 9 largest housing developers have 314,000 housing plots in strategic land banks. Find out more: http://ow.ly/NU4Kz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 With perfect timing CPRE have published a report confirming the figures of house banking CPRE â€@CPRE 12 mins12 minutes ago Our new report finds 9 largest housing developers have 314,000 housing plots in strategic land banks. Find out more: http://ow.ly/NU4Kz Thanks Denise...no surprises there although I'm not sure the picture of that abandoned development at Burford is relevant. They could have at least solved the mystery as I've driven past this on the A40 many times making an assumption that this was built with no planning consent however something tells me there,s a story to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenda Powell Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I would think the Leader of the council will be there, also the cabinet member for transportation and roads Paul Rone,(Cllr for Redhill) if all south wye councillors attend there should be six of them, Edwards,( who supports this road ,with its boulevarde of trees and bus/cycle lane) Chappell 2 Tories and one IOC. Hope as many of you from HV like myself will attend this very important meeting, It should be a momentous occasion I am waiting for the fireworks to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Well I want to maintain some form of anonymity so if it's going to kick off perhaps leave the sword and shield behind ...and settle for Police Combat fatigues complete with tazer.....Ah hang on a mo Amanda might bring Julian so scrap that ...perhaps a Tin Tin costume. Yes that will do it very unassuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm going - not to speak but to listen watch and learn and by the sounds of it watch the fireworks. Amanda made mincemeat of Johnson the last time I attended a meeting at Kindle so here we go ................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Can it be locked down if necessary to avoid bloodshed spilling onto the streets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenda Powell Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just confirmed with Kindle Centre when the meeting is to start its 7.30pm-9.30pm, and they are expecting around 50 members of the public. Glenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Thanks Glenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenda Powell Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I met the great Bobby at the Kindle Centre, he wanted to meet me, I have kept his identity as he wanted it anonomous so if You want to speak greenknight be assure you anonimity will be safe with me. Glenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Thank you Glenda and apologies for I should have come over and said hello. I had hoped to see more members of the public however all is not lost.The meeting was informative and I grabbed two important points. Firstly Herefordshire Council does not have the money which still lies in the purse of the Department of Transport. To this end I'm going to make a nuisance of my self with the Minster and under Secretary's (and there are a few). Personally ( not representing a group) I will make the case that this road scheme does not fit all the criteria for funding and could demonstrate once more a waste of the public purse should it go ahead. I would rather be fobbed off by some understudy PA in the transport dept than young Archie in Jessies office locally. Perhaps I can then go to one of Jessies surgeries for a chat! My second observation was on the announcement that the environmental study on Grafton Wood was woeful as I thought that these days such undertakings had strict dudiligence if that's the correct phrase. There are many groups that could make noise on this one so if somebody can guide me to this document that would be great. Of course if the whole thing gets timed out in March so much the better however I'm still concerned about whether the Welsh or English Governments have something in mind for the A465 because if not why spend millions dualling the remaining parts around the top of Abergavenny only to stop dead on the East side of the town. Sending HGV,s, back down the road to Raglan and a certain set of lights at Monmouth won't tick many road hauliers box. Nice pictures of the Twyford Cutting Amanda. The Old traffic lights on the old A33 that the M3 replaced were were a nightmare ....it was often called Ghost corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockfield Rodent Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hello, I was at the meeting too and it was reasonably informative. It is true the money is not guaranteed, and (if they get planning permission) the Council will still have to get a detailed business case produced by their consultants and signed off by both the LEP and DfT. That might be quite tricky if the rationale for the scheme is as bad as people say it is. A pedantic point - although the ultimately money comes from DfT it has been allocated to the LEP through the Growth Deal by the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills. This department does not care about sustainable transport - for them roads = jobs. The woman who stated that Jesse Norman can persuade the DfT to ditch the scheme is totally wrong. Indeed Norman has caused this problem by agitating for an Enterprise Zone at Rotherwas that is awful to access. If I were an opponent of the scheme I would choose my bedfellows very carefully... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Lloyd Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Indeed I was I too was there. I would not like to guess which people you both matched because I have no idea! Rockfield Rodent I did not see anybody who looked like a ratt and Greenknight I did not see anybody capable of carrying such armour. Anyway very poor turn out even from IOC people they need to sort that else it will sink. Down to business now here are the contact details for the man who spoke about the wood - Haywood Ashley Elliott 01432 341665ashellio@yahoo.com Greenknight could you also send me the info that you get from Ashley. I had a look last night to find it but I am sure whether it is under English Heritage or where. Please could somebody tell me what road was Anthony P referring to when he said there is nothing in the Council papers right up to 2040. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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