Adrian symonds Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 A very interesting meeting, and quite well attended, which is encouraging. I listened intently. One thing struck me, more than anything else. We have report after report. (Many of which are littered with inaccuracies.)We have consultation after consultation.(Many of which are meaningless box ticking exercises.) We have expert after expert, advisor after advisor, and a few consultants thrown in for good measure. (We are constantly told we have no money..... this little lot must have cost a small fortune.) Lovely. But it really isn't rocket science. It really shouldn't be too difficult a concept to grasp, that we should start easing Hereford's traffic issues, with small, sustainable, relatively cheap changes first. Evaluate the impact these have, before even considering permanently scarring the face of our beautiful county. The road will not solve any problems. It will not aid the so called Enterprise Zone. It is not the answer to Hereford's prayers. It quite simply is an idea which has been mis - sold to many. Those who really want to stop this, now need to work together, under one umbrella. Lots of groups, forums, Facebook pages etc. only serve to confuse. Folks need a clear sign post to a one stop shop, for information about a campaign. Amanda Martin and the other speakers did a great job of sharing information,and their vision, for how things could be.(John Stewart's common sense approach did indeed lower my blood pressure!.) This now needs to be presented to,and heard by, a much wider audience. As Tony Johnson also attended, perhaps he could make a start, by sharing with members of the cabinet........ It was interesting, I never realised Tony Johnson was there and I was standing next to where he was sitting., Show he is not very recognisable :)
Adrian symonds Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 For me the meeting was disappointing as I expected more than just preaching to the converted. Opportunities were missed. I expected the meeting to at least collect contact details so that those people there could be contacted easily. Why was the meeting not advertised through lots of other groups' email circulation lists (Three Elms, parish councils, wildlife groups maybe?) Why were not ALL Councillors invited? Various people had ideas but there was no effort to collect those ideas and consider their implications. What happens next? This should be the time to explore all the options that could really work best for Herefordians. But this is typical of Hereford, people will not bother and just let things happen. After all, they did vote the Tories back in, so they are not that bothered the way the city is going.
Glenda Powell Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 I could not attend last night due to a prior engagement. Conflicting opinions here some saying it was good others disappointed, how many councillors were invited and attended, also how many of the general public was there?. I have read the comments from Roberta Edwards doesn't seem to be from her, their home in Belmont is bordering onto a field close to Belmont Pools and Haywood Lane so with a road 8 metres high it may not be visible from their home but the noise will be very loud. when she worked for the council around 2003-2005 she was with the environment department and her husband that she has now was the cabinet member for the environment.
Aylestone Voice Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 It was as pointed out an event preaching to the converted but I did leave after the first couple of questions. I am not convinced either way on a relief road But if I did let's say nail my colours to the "yes" point of view would I get the same comments on here that Mrs Edwards has received just because I do not agree with the established viewpoint? There appears to be little respect for opposing views? Perhaps that is to be expected.
dippyhippy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 On the "preaching to the converted" point, could I just add a few thoughts??? I don't know, but I'm guessing that for some of the folks that attended the meeting, this might be their first foray into some sort of campaign.....I don't think it's ever a bad idea to grab every opportunity to give people information on alternative proposals. I certainly found John Stewart very informative. I'd also like to make a point which crossed my mind as I walked home. (Key word here being "walked!") If this is a campaign which is too have any sort of environmental argument, against this road being built, and promoting sustainable and greener alternatives..... folks do need to practise what they preach! Quite a few of those attending last night seemed to know each other.... was there any car sharing/cycling/walking going on to GET to the meeting??? The irony of a meeting promoting the preservation of our beautiful county, and declaring that we don't need this road...... then all jumping in their separate vehicles to go home, is not lost on me! It can't be a case of do as I say, not as I do! And it most definitely can't be a case of Not In My Back Yard. There are strong and compelling reasons not to have this road built. But everybody needs to be singing from the same hymn sheet, and clear communication is vital. (An option to "sign in" at the meeting, and leave contact details was an opportunity missed, but can be easily rectified in time for the next one!)
Amanda Martin Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 All feedback welcome. Cloudberry, your point can be addressed in one word: resources. There are currently three of us trying to move this along. None of us are affluent and we all work so time and money are limited. We advertised two weeks running in the Hereford Times, posted prolifically on Twitter, Facebook and various other forums and invited key people we thought might be interested. John Harrington is still around £2k out of pocket following the Edgar Street trees campaign and last night's event and the Kindle event a couple of weeks ago came in at over £800. John Perkins is probably similarly out of pocket through ad hoc expenses and spends a lot of his time keeping the social media relevant and up to date. I share that with you to put into context any ways in which you feel we fell short of publicising and organising the event although in fact four people did come forward with contact details and an offer to become more involved - the event was worth that alone. Dippy, you raise a valid point. John H was up at 4.00am yesterday and came to chair the event more or less straight from his job as a Fedex driver - hence he arrived and left in a van. Julian cycled and the rest of us walked. I do use my bike whenever possible and frankly I'm amazed I've survived. We recognise the need to take advantage of what momentum we have generated and to this end, I would like to push ahead with planning our study trip to the Netherlands. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the way over the conceptual and philosophical hurdles is to bring our councillors and officers into contact with their Dutch counterparts. I would like to plan for mid to late September - time to get passports sorted out and book leave from work. I think this trip should be open to whoever would like to go. In the shorter term, I think we should take up Tony Johnson's suggestion of inviting the "other side" to put their view with a further event - something a little more adversarial with some debating edge.
dippyhippy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Posted June 25, 2015 I completely agree Amanda. Those that have steered this forward must be congratulated. This is no small task to have taken on. (My observations about modes of transport, was more about us audience members, then those organising or on the panel...... folks motives for not wanting this road will most definitely be questioned, at some point along the line!) What you need, is practical help, positive suggestions and possibly financial contributions. I'm happy to do whatever when I can.
Cloudberry Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Yes Amanda, I understand about resources, which is why it is so important to use them to best advantage. One person at the meeting told us they had been working for over 20 years to promote cycling in Hereford, and knew the guest speaker well. Despite all enormous efforts of them and many others we are still in the situation we see today. Some people at the meeting knew each other because they have been working on all sorts of transport or environmental or political "campaigns" over the years (so Dippy, they don't necessarily live close enough to share lifts!) Some of their work will become more visible as the responses to the southern link road consultation are being gradually made public on the Council website. So why has there been so little progress on transport matters over the years? Not enough knowledge? Not enough support? Not enough resources? Not sufficient organisation of resources? I don't know, but what can we do that is different now? Well communication is the key as the guest speaker said, and some methods work better than others. One big change now is that so many more people use email. So it is much easier to get information to people directly, once you have asked for their email address.
Amanda Martin Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Absolutely right, Cloudberry. John Stewart and I were talking about this over breakfast yesterday morning before he left. As you probably know, he and I were involved in the transport reform movement of the Nineties which became a groundswell of public opinion and a powerful alliance of local groups which propelled transport up the political agenda.Hansard records from the Nineties show how much Labour has shifted its position on transport. Back then, we were all talking to Labour shadow spokesmen at high levels and had every expectation that, if New Labour were elected, we would see a significant shift in priorities. These were clear promises on which, in retrospect, we should not have relied. We have recently got to know someone who started work at the Department of Transport, as it then was, in 1997 when New Labour did come to power. He said that initially there was some will to effect change but a combination of the consequences of Tory scorched earth policy on public transport and fear of the motoring lobby quickly dissipated it. The momentum was lost and they all fell back into what they knew: "predict and provide" road building although on a lesser scale. Many grassroots campaigners fell away too; in our case, our group had actually stopped the motorway we were opposing so many of us specialised in particular areas - with me it was the effect of traffic on children's independence, mobility and development - so we sat back and waited for Labour to keep their promises while John and the others at Transport2000 and ALARMUK, kept the line of communication open with the politicians. That's what happened. Transport fell off the agenda with the dismantling of the local community groups; without people power nothing can be achieved. As you say, things have moved on. We now have internet and in theory the dissemination of information and communication should be much easier. In Herefordshire, there is a general lack of political activism and awareness - people should be up in arms over local healthcare but aren't - and building up a head of steam is going to take time. I'm conscious that with a very small number of "chiefs", there is a danger that each of us will become "ubiquitous" and individually over exposed - I have already received vicious emails accusing me of "grandstanding" and this is another reason for having a good, informed team who understand the issues and can take the microphone. I personally struggle with public speaking and Wednesday was the first time I felt the nerves subsiding a little. Money is always a problem. Clearly we can't keep subsidising the campaign out of our own pockets and Campaign for Better Transport may be able to help us there - another benefit of networking with the national "mother ship". There's a lot to do but I am optimistic.
bobby47 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Grandstanding! That's a relatively new one. You'll be called a lot worse than that Amanda before this course is run. Course, these people, the ones who want to build do not think strategically. They never do. They might claim to think this way but they really don't. They don't because they can't. To think strategically is a thought process beyond them and nothing the future may through up will have registered upon their radar. What they want is simply to build. Build more houses to collect revenue, throw in a road and pretend that all's well and slip in the odd retail unit that'll pay some Hereford youngster armed with a Degree six pound eighty an hour to serve me and my fat face with chips and a Burger. Not once, not even for a moment would they have ever considered the consequences of pulling a lever that'll have a social and economic impact upon all of us. They are unable to do this. The grand, 'let's build some bloody houses and build them bloody quickly' may be a noble idea. The housing demand in Hereford is huge and if all things stay as they are, then perhaps building loads of boxes to place our cheap labour force in is the right course to take. But....and this is being a strategic thinker, what will happen in 2017 when our nation is given the opportunity to vote in the European Referendum? What do we do if the result is to leave this unholy Union. You can bet my right nut that the housing demand will plummet and many will leave and settle elsewhere. The knock on effect will be Private Landlords will have to cut their extortionate rent levels and many of these entrepreneurs who are riding this little slice of fiscal pleasure will go belly up and bust. Then what happens when we've destroyed our countryside, built homes that cannot be filled and there's still no bloody well paid jobs to fund this madness. The answer of course is, 'we should have looked into the future, trained our minds to think strategically and waited until after the Referendum before we built all these houses'. Will they do anything like this? No bloody chance. They'll plough ahead without giving any decision a backward glance.
Amanda Martin Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Bobby47 I'm afraid that wasn't even the opposition: it was "friendly fire". I think you've put your finger on the risk of putting all your eggs in the "inward investment" basket instead of supporting local businesses. This is what Newport did with LG: they trashed SSSIs and schmoozed LG to come to a huge purpose built factory out of town. The only people who could access that employment were those who had their own transport. Short term it exacerbated the traffic problems and, after a few years, when the Welsh Development Agency grants ran out, LG shut up shop and moved on to cherry pick tax payers' money elsewhere. The same with Ford in Bridgend.
dippyhippy Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Is it beyond the realms of possibility, that HC can take a long, hard look at what has happened in Newport and Bridgend, and learn something from their mistakes??? Amanda, your idea of a trip to see how things could/should be done, is excellent. Would you extend the invitation to perhaps one or two of the cabinet?? Perhaps if they could share the vision, they may be more inclined to remove their blinkers.....! (Perhaps Bobby may like the sound of this excursion?? He could use it as an opportunity to purchase his tobacco......! Now that would be an interesting mix of travelling companions!)
Amanda Martin Posted June 27, 2015 Report Posted June 27, 2015 Dippy, I have already invited Tony Johnson! I would be delighted to have Bobby47 come along and anyone else who wants to. It could indeed be an eclectic mix!
bobby47 Posted June 27, 2015 Report Posted June 27, 2015 It would be an honour to accompany the mighty Martin and her colleagues. Mind, if Councillor Johnson is to attend, and it's confirmed, then I insist on being tied, tethered and bound to a gurney and be fitted with some sort of face mask, rather like the one Anthony Hopkins wore in Silence of the Lambs, and being diligently supervised throughout the encounter between him and I.
dippyhippy Posted June 27, 2015 Report Posted June 27, 2015 Leave it to me, Bobby..... I'm sure these arrangements can be made! Thank heavens I attended that "Recreational Welding" course.....I'll have a made to measure mask knocked up in no time at all!
greenknight Posted June 27, 2015 Report Posted June 27, 2015 I guess I have to put my cards on the table because although I strongly object to this proposed road build ( still waiting for my formal objection to present on planning website), I don't object to the idea of a bypass around Hereford...sorry. I see roads as corridors and corridors in nature are prooving the lifeline to many species. Certain species in isolation are heading for extinction because their numbers cannot be sustained. Roadside verges,railway embankment,canal systems are now holding higher numbers of mammals, birds,invertebrates etc because traditional farming methods have gone, set aside a passion for the few and hedgerows baron of the wild flowers we used to know. I have seen more bird species in my back garden in Tupsley in one year than the whole eight years from a similar idyll in a North Herefordshire village. A few weeks ago I stepped out of my car near the Bird Lip roundabout in Gloucestershire..I stepped onto a verge where orchids grew and Marbled White Butterflies danced around the Cow Parsley. We need a bypass one with supporting cycleways with long sweeping banked verges where life can be restored and left managed with wildlife in mind. We need houses but houses with privacy and gardens big enough for children to play and where food could be grown because in the future it may well be that we will have to grow our own food and our children may have to live with us ...so no boxes please for they are the gettoes, the shanties of tomorrow. One final thing ..it's great that the M50 is now finally back to the two lanes. The bridge work has gone...this modern bridge that needed repairs that took longer because under its skirt it provided a home to a colony of rare bats..you see modern concrete if done properly can work with nature and us. Just food for thought.
Cambo Posted June 29, 2015 Report Posted June 29, 2015 Hereford transport forum posted this about an hour ago on Facebook https://m.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.herefordshire.gov.uk%2Fmedia%2F7963418%2Frs68_asbri_iro_taylor_wimpey_matter4.pdf&h=_AQHIVQum&enc=AZPqX4zwogRJ727-TTKiApU7Hhcxc-c6NtXVTlLHH155oJ1LTIX-aqTj3YaPkMhEk4pBFCrPemVIzyz17u07DSU1o9WqWV1e0vBCfp228yETbHtpLLriu8ox-4Qt1ciyweEJ-obzC6_J03pGXoiY1LNnzlRUuWC9whdjkVhYP2jerEGZW5NJ4BBGFAaj4MMGplU&s=1
Glenda Powell Posted June 30, 2015 Report Posted June 30, 2015 Just a thought if we are losing our buses we won't need the bus lanes!
Denise Lloyd Posted July 1, 2015 Report Posted July 1, 2015 To anybody who has read and inwardly absorbed all the bumf associated with this planning application do you know if a study has been carried out to see how much extra traffic with especial reference to HGV's will be encouraged to take the Belmont to Madley crossing the Bridge Sollars bridge route and naturally visa versa. I have yet to do my letter but I am building up to it. Mind you be warned not one of my letters of objection has been taken into account in the Kingstone planning fiasco so I maybe a bad omen.
Denise Lloyd Posted July 1, 2015 Report Posted July 1, 2015 DENISE LLOYD â€@DENISEL37953929 2m2 minutes ago I've just sent a letter to the Chancellor to demand more funding to make cycling and walking a better choice. http://takeaction.cpre.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=21&ea.campaign.id=39390&ea.tracking.id=twitter … With the cut in funding for the railways does anybody believe there is a possibility that funding for road building will also be cut?
greenknight Posted July 1, 2015 Report Posted July 1, 2015 Actually Denise I think the government will be shown possibilities for the line that runs from Newport to Shrewsbury but only by way of getting freight off the central rail network especially now as many big projects are being shelved with capacity running at max on most lines to the city. Who knows if things continue to deteriorate on Dover/Calais crossing whose to say that haulage companies might seek alternative road/rail routes to cross the channel! I believe freight is already up on our line running North/South.
Denise Lloyd Posted July 2, 2015 Report Posted July 2, 2015 Ten or eleven objections posted today - much to read later. CPRE objection not as lengthy as usual but brief and very much to the point. Good old CPRE they do so much good work unlike some charities..
greenknight Posted July 2, 2015 Report Posted July 2, 2015 Sadly it is my understanding that there are to be no objections from Herefordshire Ornithological Club and the Herefordshire Wildlife Trust has not carried out a survey of the route. I do believe that an objection was being submitted by the Woodlands Trust.
Denise Lloyd Posted July 2, 2015 Report Posted July 2, 2015 I am surprised the twitchers are not submitting one but they like a lot of charities rely on public support. The majority of their members are retirees. Herefordshire Wildlife Trust I don't know anything about this society I don't think. The reps are all good but I am sure they used to block out people's addresses I'll have a look later.
Cloudberry Posted July 5, 2015 Report Posted July 5, 2015 It's good to see some more Reps are added now. I guess some people or organisations did not put in a response because either did not feel they know enough, or they could not find time to find out, or they just didn't realise what was going on. If things like this are only covered on media like Hereford Voice, not enough people get to hear about it.
Ubique Posted July 5, 2015 Report Posted July 5, 2015 Feel as if I have been living like a hedgehog my wife has been caring for , and just come out of hibernation . From Cloudberry - It's good to see some more Reps are added now. It appears that the Council,are light years behind in adding the Objections et al to the Application , think that they have only added Objectiones etc up to,11 June ! My Objection has not been added to date , please don't ask when I did it - but I did .
Denise Lloyd Posted July 5, 2015 Report Posted July 5, 2015 Lovely to see you've come back Ubique. I'm sure Here for Hereford won't mind me cribbing the following:= FURTHER PUBLIC CONSULTATION ON THE SOUTHERN LINK ROADThanks to diligent objectors, including members of the Here for Hereford group, the Council's Planning Officer has admitted that there will be a further period of consultation on the vexed question of the Council seeking planning permission (from itself) for its own Southern Link Road proposal. This consultation is not likely to take place before the end of August. Despite totaling 107 documents, the paperwork submitted with the planning application (No. 151314) is deemed to be insufficient. An updated 'Package Assembly' of sustainable transport measures, plus further reports on Archaeology, the Historic Environment, Landscape Sensitivity, a 'No Road Scenario', and a Water Framework Directive Assessment are still awaited. This list is by no means exhaustive, and as the Council points out: '...there may be some other documents that will require further consultation'. What was the cause of the Council's rush to seek planning permission when their case for the road was incomplete? The answer surely lies with the conditions attached to the provisional funding of the road which indicate that if planning permission is not secured by April 2016, the £27.6mn allocated to the Marches LEP for the road will be withdrawn. The Department for Transport has no intention of disbursing these funds to the Marches LEP, and a final decision on the road will be taken by the Department, not the LEP. Meanwhile, there is more time to study those 107 supporting documents, read the responses to the planning application (50 published, so far), and get ready for further public consultation
Maggie May Posted July 5, 2015 Report Posted July 5, 2015 I have seen that there are now 50 representations and some of them are really interesting with a lot of knowledge lacking in much of Herefordshire Council. I wonder if these comments will even be considered by the Council or will it just be ignored? At least with some of these representations it saves other people having to wade through those horrible big files on the planning website. If Here for Hereford are correct (Thank you Denise for highlighting this update) then more people can make other informed objections. Surely Councillors cant ignore a ground swell of local opinion that says it doesn't make sense to build a road between the A49 and A465 and is in fact a big waste of all our money.
greenknight Posted July 18, 2015 Report Posted July 18, 2015 So it's now 85 representations with a few more bigger organisations participating...surely this will slow down the process.
jeanharris Posted July 18, 2015 Report Posted July 18, 2015 Does anyone know if the PA is being called in. Kelly Gibbons came here on Monday and she said she wouldn't be surprised if it is called in but it doesn't fit the criteria for a call in.She has to put a case to the planning committee. It was interesting to hear that Hc haven't got the money and neither has The Marches LEP as they have to bid for it. She wasn't bothered about the number of objections on Grafton Wood but quite concerned about the height of the bridge and the effect it will have on residents at Grafton and Callow. We had a visit from Worc CC and PB last week saying they were going to carry out an aercheological dig in the near future. I was quite surprised to see that the farmer has harvested his crops and has cut out the exact line of the road. He has come tight to our hedge as obviously the proposed road is going through our garden. Surely with something like 50 objections HC need to listen to us. Nothing going to happen before end of Sept. All seems very quiet at the moment.
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