Seasonal street traders in Hereford

[Bilbobobby]

It's that time of the year when the city is decended upon by the various seasonal street traders who take up position in the High Street (and nearby) selling 'tat' from a shopping trolley or store combi trolley.

Do you think its right that they are allowed to do this - bearing in mind they do not pay for a street traders licence from the council, pay no buisness rates to the county and are likely taking away trade from the various shops in and near the city centre?

I've asked the question of the council, who say that they have a pedlars licence and as long as they keep moving and don't cause an obstruction, its okay for them to trade.

Now my understanding of a pedlers licence (certificate) is that it is issued by the police and it allows an individual to travel from town to town - door to door on foot - selling goods.  2 'traders' have taken up a position at the junction of the High Street and Widemarsh Street and guess what - they don't move until they pack up for the day.

 

My point is unless they are paying a licence fee to the council - as the many do who run the market stalls in High Town - they should not be operating in the city taking trade away from the shops.  AND they are not allowed to trade in Gloucester, Cheltenham or Worcester and I would guess never in the Maylord Orchards or Old Livestock Market complexes.

 

So....

[Roger]

It's the same old faces selling the same old stuff every year. The pashmina's sold off the wheeled trolley is normally Shady Scarratt and/or his kids'. They also operate the helter skelter in High Town at the May Fair.

 

Then you have the old fella selling the perfume. Which I don't think I'd even use to kill the slugs on me lawn. 

 

They've all got the proper pedlars certificate in my experience. Simply because they are so cheap to buy and so there's no point in not having one. 

 

I don't have a problem with these people as I've never found them 'in yer face' and the rules allow them to trade for free so long as they have that certificate. The only condition is that they have to keep 'on the move' (as has been pointed out). That's a bit of a subjective decision to enforce. And if the cops are about then they make more of an effort to move.

 

Obviously parking up and being in virtually the same spot for hours on end is 'having a laugh' on their part and I know full well they'll do it if they can get away with it. I would then class that as illegal street trading which I would suggest is the domain of the Council to sort out. But rather like the taxis in Bewell Street it's just that bit too much effort to deal with. Especially as there's much easier low hanging fruit to pick on that's easier to prove. 

[Ubique]

Should Pedlars travel from house to house selling their wares immediately for delivery - Betterware springs to mind ( if they are still in business ) Just guessing now , is it Hawkers who can sell there wares in towns but are not allowed to go from house to house , If I'm wrong it's nothing new !

Some Councils also insist on Street Licences , presume to main reasons , 1. Revenue for Council 2 They can control the number of Licences issued whereby , if I am correct , somebody can get Pedlars Certificate in one Police Area which allows the holder to carry on their business anywhere in the UK ? Or maybe just England.

 

Tell me more O wise ones .

[Roger]

I used to enforce these so I know a bit about Pedlars Certificates. You get them from a main Police Station and cost about £12 and last a year. They enable someone (17 years and over I think) to go anywhere in the UK selling goods from street to street/door to door - for immediate delivery. Or to provide a skill. Like knife sharpening.

 

The only ones I ever had problems with are the transit van loads of people who arrive in Hereford (generally from Nottingham) who get dropped off and who then go door to door selling ironing board covers/dusters. They are very often criminal types. Rarely do they have a certificate and they try to fob you off with an ID badge provided by the company they work for. 

 

You also get the Chinese street sellers who target pubs a lot selling counterfeit DVD's. Happens in Hereford that does ... 

[dippyhippy]

Very informative posts, Roger - thanks for that.

 

I have to say that I find the street traders less of an issue than the charity workers who want you to hand over your bank details! I actually avoid walking through High Town when they are around, opting to walk through Maylords, down Widemarsh Street, then down Bewell Street, just to avoid them!

 

This stops me calling in at Marks and Sparks, but at least I can still use the back door of The Butter market to nip in for my veggies!

[Bilbobobby]

My point is about the impact on the local shops and the fact that the 'trolley sellers' turn up and operate without paying business rates or even a token licence fee to the council. So if posters are happy to let it go and see more local shops struggle/fail/close I'll close the post.

[Bilbobobby]

Chuggers - charity street collectors are a pain. They should be regulated. The council can do this - the just don't have the bottle to do it.

[Bilbobobby]

Here's a fact. As at this time there are at least 20 'trolley' sellers in town selling glow sticks & wands all static and all with signs saying 'official lights-on seller'. Asked a chap who I know involved in the Christmas lights turn-on 'are they licensed' choice of 2 answers - its not the 'yes' one...

point is lost revenue for local shops and council - who we know are struggling and in dire straights (great band by the way..) No doubt will be fixture every Wednesday 'til Christmas (but not in Maylords or new complex) Bah humbug!

[dippyhippy]

Forgive me, Bilbobobby, I got sidetracked!

 

I think they very much have an advantage, which I feel is unfair to the shops and also the Wednesday and Saturday market traders.

 

Events such as the farmers market and antique market are brilliant, and I'm sure are a real draw for folks, and I expect they have to pay a fair whack for that as well.

 

I am looking forward to the Christmas craft fair which is due in December......that always pulls a crowd!

[twowheelsgood]

Both the Maylords complex (including the open streets) and of course the OLM are in private hands and their security staff tightly control what goes on there. Its about keeping standards up, not something the council are interested in. Hawkers and their tat continue to make High Town look scruffy and downbeat, something which suits the council and their OLM bias very well.

[Roger]

Here's a fact. As at this time there are at least 20 'trolley' sellers in town selling glow sticks & wands all static and all with signs saying 'official lights-on seller'. Asked a chap who I know involved in the Christmas lights turn-on 'are they licensed' choice of 2 answers - its not the 'yes' one...

point is lost revenue for local shops and council - who we know are struggling and in dire straights (great band by the way..) No doubt will be fixture every Wednesday 'til Christmas (but not in Maylords or new complex) Bah humbug!

 

 

Pic taken tonight ^^^

 

That one is probably not moving but is clearly on wheels ~ and will move as and when he feels like it or has to. If he's got any sense then he'll have a £12 Pedlars Certificate ... I fully agree with your point tho that these people will be competing with stores who sell similar items. That's just the way it is.

 

All of that is happening under a manned Council camera so if the Council were inclined to enforce any potential illegal street trading (ie not moving enough) they could. Will they? Probably not. 

 

As regards business rates places like Saxty's and the Mocha Bar will be paying that to sell their coffee offerings but the Coffee Cart bang in the centre of High Town will not be as it's a movable wagon. Is that particularly fair? But the Coffee Cart will be paying the Council to rent their spot. I haven't a clue what that fee might be.

[Roger]

Both the Maylords complex (including the open streets) and of course the OLM are in private hands and their security staff tightly control what goes on there. Its about keeping standards up, not something the council are interested in. Hawkers and their tat continue to make High Town look scruffy and downbeat, something which suits the council and their OLM bias very well.

 

Gomond Street and Maylord Street are public streets. They were long before the Maylords arrived. I would seriously doubt they could ban Pedlar's from there if that was tested in Court. 

[stupidfrustration]

The coffee cart is an interesting one isnt it.

 

I wonder how you "pitch" to the council for that site?

I wonder how much the coffee cart - or "central perv" as the young ones call it costs to rent that space each year?

I wonder if I wanted to run my own coffee stall that - and try and take over that pitch I would go about it?

I wonder if it ever comes up for renewal to the public or other business?

 

All good questions.

 

These street traders on movable wagons - come on - these people are not the top of the tree. 

These people are not the ones living in £2million plus houses that will have to pay further tax on their mansions.

 

I am all for a fair trade, especially for local business in Hereford, especially in High Town, but these people that sell glow sticks and pashminas at peak times are just trying to get by. 

[dippyhippy]

Hmmmm.

 

I'm not quite so sure that the lovely lady who sells beautiful scarves at the Wednesday market, and pays for her pitch would agree with your comment about the pashminas!

 

I agree, they are just trying to get by.....isn't that what we are all trying to do - but if you are selling items so similar to other traders whose trading costs are significantly higher, that surely can't be a fair system.

[Roger]

 

I wonder if it ever comes up for renewal to the public or other business?

 

 

Good point ... How long is that cosy agreement for ? Never thought of that ... 

[Roger]

Walked into town today and the oldish fella I normally see selling perfume had two wheeled trolley's of Pashmina's in the road outside M&S at 2PM.

 

Drove through the route in my car at 5PM and his new location was on the pavement about 4 feet away ... I presume he only moved as the road opened to cars at 4.30PM ... 

 

An obvious example of someone not being a pedlar but actually street trading ... Costing him about £12 a year in fees ... 

 

What if you put all the gazebo type stalls in town on wheels and moved them a few inches now and then? Same difference really ... Save a packet on renting a pitch off the Council ...

 

Or the AA man and his lecturn selling breakdown memberships? Put it on wheels and move about a bit ~ avoid any Council fee ... 

[twowheelsgood]

Round them all up and put them in the Buttermarket?

[Bilbobobby]

Level playing field for all. Charge a reasonable rate and ensure they are located in a place where they are not an obstruction to others. I for one will expect them to get out if my way if blocking the pavement - this is very relevant to people with pushchairs, walking young children, elderly and don't forget wheelchair users

[Biomech]

 Or to provide a skill. Like knife sharpening.

 

 

I don't mind them as long as they leave after Christmas. But I agree with bobby, if they are setting up in one spot they should pay like the market people (do?). Although from Roger's example, I can't imagine a knife sharpener or boot polisher moving from one spot.

 

Round them all up and put them in the Buttermarket?

 

Great idea, call it a "peddlars market" at least they are all together, it provides a fixed point for shoppers and a "feature"

[Biomech]

I have to say that I find the street traders less of an issue than the charity workers....... actually avoid walking through High Town ............. just to avoid them!

 

 

 

Chuggers - charity street collectors are a pain. They should be regulated. The council can do this - the just don't have the bottle to do it.  

 

 

I COULDN'T AGREE MOOOORREEE!!! These leeches really wind me up, EVERY. SINGLE. TIME I go to town, hassled, not just once, but by every one of them - often 6-7 in just a walk from M&S to "Chadds". And then again all the way back. I also now avoid high town - and consequently the many shops - because of them.

 

I have complained to the council about this who said there is nothing they can do and implied that they couldn't care less.

 

These people also aren't even from here, they come down from Birmingham, Bristol and Nottingham to leech on the shoppers.

 

The AA, Sky people... they stay in one place and don't hound the public. Why can't these charity people be assigned 1 fixed point instead of chasing people down the street with their forced sales pitches!!!!

[Ubique]

What I have learnt - which might be good news to our younger poster - when you get to a certain age Chuggers come to the conclusion that either we have everything ( wrong ) or we are going from hand to mouth ( wrong again ) so Mrs U and I can walk past M and S with confidence that we will not be approached and commit ourselves to an unwanted Standing Order whereby the Chuggers receive a very high percentage of my first few Standing Orders.

[Biomech]

Hopefully they are coming to the conclusion that I'm fed up with it and will be extremely verbally abusive towards them

[Bilbobobby]

Perhaps lobbying the collection of councillors who represent the city centre is the best approach. They bang on about representing the shops and businesses in the city but are silent on chuggers and unlicensed street seasonal traders.

[twowheelsgood]

Bilbobobby - there's only one ward district councillor representing the city centre (Cllr Hubbard, Central Ward). Have you contacted him about your concerns? The Town Councillors have no say in such matters.

[Roger]

What about the Council enforcement people who sort out dog droppings and people dropping *** ends? And fly tipping? It's not rocket science to add illegal street trading to their remit? 

 

Although I do appreciate dropping a *** end is easier to prove than illegal street trading! 

[Roger]

Can't believe the site censor blanked out my word there as I used the @ sign in f @ g .... 

[Ubique]

R@@@ger , I am surprised that the censors allow your name , I am sure that Del Boy etal had a suggestive meaning for it ?

[Bilbobobby]

When was the last time you saw council environmental enforcement officers - (Not traffic wardens). What do they actually do? No doubt someone will come back with a detailed response explaining 'everythunk'

[dippyhippy]

No detailed reponse, I'm afraid Bilbo bobby, but we do have a member on here who is from the environmental/trading standards team.....I think they are all under one "heading" these days. Quite often if there is something he can add to a debate, he will post.He also updates us on things like shops/premises being raided, and provides a lot of factual detail, which is always useful!

 

You never know, he may add his thoughts to this if it's within his departments remit!!

[Biomech]

When was the last time you saw council environmental enforcement officers 

 

 

 

I don't know about that, but I saw street cleaners still working at around 8pm in the OLM this week. In contrast, of course, to the reduced service in high town - what was it, 1 man to do the whole of high town?