freedom of speech

[greenknight]

Massacre at French magazine office

 

This my friends is where freedom of speech is under threat, which breeds resentment and gives the state the power to control.

 

Irrespective of whoever becomes the government in May we must campaign for democracy over cries of nationalism,extremism and revenge. These actions by a few offend the Islamic faith which generally like Christians are a peaceful people. They must not win and we must not replicate their cowardly ways citing ill conceived religious beliefs.

[Bill Thomas]

Masked cowards!

[Ubique]

This is so sad - particularly when you see on TV the murderers walk up to a wounded Police Office lying on the pavement and shooting him in the head.

 

What " they "are trying to do is stir up racial disorder - think that in the near future ( sadly ) this wil happen in this wonderful country of ours .

The UK has always been a very tolerant Country for others who are seeking to escape from their Country of residence / birth for whatever reason -

 

Will it come back to bit us - sadly yes.

 

( I just get so cheesed off by the violence in this World. - don't they know anything about history - violence achieves nothing )

 

Must add that only yesterday I was remising with a friend about the time that after WW2 we could recall sweets coming off Sweet Rationing c1952 , we didn't know much about about the war although i didn't see my Fathet for 6 years so life went on.

[greenknight]

This is so sad - particularly when you see on TV the murderers walk up to a wounded Police Office lying on the pavement and shooting him in the head.

What " they "are trying to do is stir up racial disorder - think that in the near future ( sadly ) this wil happen in this wonderful country of ours .

The UK has always been a very tolerant Country for others who are seeking to escape from their Country of residence / birth for whatever reason -

Will it come back to bit us - sadly yes.

( I just get so cheesed off by the violence in this World. - don't they know anything about history - violence achieves nothing )

Must add that only yesterday I was remising with a friend about the time that after WW2 we could recall sweets coming off Sweet Rationing c1952 , we didn't know much about about the war although i didn't see my Fathet for 6 years so life went on.

Hi Ubique

 

My sentiments exactly. They provide the excuse for revenge and a big brother state which of course is then abused by those in power. Should we worry here in Blighty ....yes we should....Should we worry in this County ...yes we should and for lots of reasons some of them not so obvious.

2015 will be notable for events as yet unknown rather than a general election which could easily be decided by such mindless cowardice.

 

My neighbours cat gets right to me when he drops me a present destroying the wildflower meadow I have lovingly protected. I respond with occasional water and the screaming habdabs by my response is proportional. I don't intend to string him up and then set fire to him!

 

The world now faces its biggest challenge since the second world war and eventually we will all wake up to the fact that we cannot hide from such butchery performed in the name of religion not even in Herefordshire where there are many who feel it is wrapped in a protective bubble....after all we do have a very special regiment based here.

 

I wonder how long it will be before people fear the larger cities and run to rural counties hoping to escape. What sort of impact will that have on local resources. I think the next three years will show us....Sadly.

[Paul Jones]

You do not hear of non Muslims going into Mosques and randomly killing people but I think it may come, sadly. Some of these fanatics must be brain washed, they really must be.

[bobby47]

My heart goes out to my fellow Brits who are Muslim. My God, they must cringe with anger and frustration whenever they open the papers, turn on the TV and listen to idiots like Amjen Choudrary spouting their views on our culture, our heritage and our way of life.

The French media are politely asking that all Western media outlets transmit the cartoon image of the prophet Mohammed to show some display of solidarity and protect our freedoms of expression. Id rather they didn't, thank you very much'. There would be an explosion of violence on an unimaginable scale in our Country. In many ways, sadly, I believe that we reached the tipping point long ago and our great Country is destined to become deeply ensconced in this ideological battle between the modern world and that of Radical Islam.

As for us, the West, we've given birth and voice to two of the planets biggest Christian religious zealots, the liar Blair and George W Bush and its they who Id like to see hauled before The Hague before I race off to meet my bloody maker.

Our Civil Liberties? This latest act of mindless brutality will set in place statutory instruments that'll affect each and every one of us as we pursue our peaceful lives trying to be tolerant, accommodating difference and hang onto the belief that our way of life is better than those who hunger for death and the golden opportunity to dispatch anyone who doesn't submit to the deranged doctrine of these thick and medieval barbaric monsters who've crossed lines that no human should ever step near.

As for the future, it's inevitable that tensions will rise, Islamic people will become demonised and they'll slip gradually away from the centre of our society. Many, for many social reasons are already on the margins of our society because there's been no integration and events like this will only push them further away.

We are bloody doomed and throwing a few million quid at local charitable organisations that preach tolerance toward none Muslims and why it ain't so good to hack someone's head off or blow themselves up, is a pointless excercise served up by politicians who simply haven't got a clue what to do.

We have no answer. Nobody does. Two cultures have collided and there is nothing that anyone can do to stop the inevitable madness that will follow this terrible destructive event.

[Colin James]

[K.Butt]

I am fed up treading on eggshells with these fanatics! They preach on our streets and nothing is done, yet when someone says the slightest thing the events of today happen over and over, I hope they rot in hell! Yes yes masked always! Such cowards!!!!!

[Guest smartieno1]

Do you really believe that this was a random attack on a "High Profile" target?  I find it hard to believe that they can keep Salman Rushdie safe for years but not this organisation..and isn't it amazing how they have just managed to identify the gunmen in a matter of hours but couldn't prevent this happening...



I wonder if it could just be.... nothing more than a smokescreen to erode even more of our freedoms?



http://heavy.com/social/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-shooting-terror-islamist-attack-conspiracy-press-day-inside-job-false-flag/

[Alex]

Do you really believe that this was a random attack on a "High Profile" target?  I find it hard to believe that they can keep Salman Rushdie safe for years but not this organisation..and isn't it amazing how they have just managed to identify the gunmen in a matter of hours but couldn't prevent this happening...

 

 

 

I wonder if it could just be.... nothing more than a smokescreen to erode even more of our freedoms?

 

 

 

http://heavy.com/social/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-shooting-terror-islamist-attack-conspiracy-press-day-inside-job-false-flag/

 

I cannot believe what I have just read, well actually I can...I suppose the people who died never really died either eh and they were just a load of actors who have been paid off. I find these conspiracy topics even more offending!!!       Shame on you.

[Victor Wright]

Do you really believe that this was a random attack on a "High Profile" target?  I find it hard to believe that they can keep Salman Rushdie safe for years but not this organisation..and isn't it amazing how they have just managed to identify the gunmen in a matter of hours but couldn't prevent this happening...

 

 

 

I wonder if it could just be.... nothing more than a smokescreen to erode even more of our freedoms?

 

 

 

http://heavy.com/social/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-shooting-terror-islamist-attack-conspiracy-press-day-inside-job-false-flag/

 

 

I was shocked at the atrocities I watched yesterday but today I am appalled to read this Phil, surprised at you for falling for this rubbish, I really am. This is the sort of crap that other weirdo David Icke would say.

[Mick]

I read this article earlier which address's these idiotic theories;

 

The horrific killing of 12 people at the Paris offices of the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo seems disturbingly straightforward. The magazine has a long history of using satire to critique radical Islam (and many other targets). They have published many cartoons depicting Mohammed, something that has provoked violence before. They had previously been firebombed, and have been the target of threats for many years. Several of those killed were named as being "wanted, dead or alive" by 

al Qaeda's 

Inspire

 magazine

 (alongside Salman Rushdie). Witnesses to the shooting say the

 gunmen shouted they were "avenging the honor the prophet"

.

And yet there is a small but vocal subset of people who consider nearly every major story in the mainstream media to be fake in some way. Every time there is an attack of some kind, a shooting, a bombing, even the events of 9/11, they claim that the story has been manipulated, or that the shootings were not done by who the media says did it, or even that the event was entirely staged, with fake blood and "crisis actors" who play out the roles of shooters and victims in carefully choreographed pretend carnage. This has already started to happened with the Charlie Hebdo shootings, and with an event of such significance and potential for incitement, it is guaranteed to continue and escalate, and become part of the canon of purported "false flag" events. David Icke was 

quick to chime in. 

Over and over the theorists will come up with claims of things they think were suspicious about these events. In the Sandy Hook school schoolings, banal things like the lack of video, or the small stature of the shooter, or the facial expressions of the parents of the victims were offered as "proof" that the shootings never happened. After the Boston Marathon bombings armchair experts opined that there was too much blood, or not enough blood, or the blood was too red, or that people reacted in unexpected ways to having their legs blown off, thus proving that the events were just a charade.

These claims, of course, are specious. Just shoehorned cherry-picked confirmation bias by people who have already decided that everything is fake, and so 

everything

 they see is evidence of that fakery. Many of their claims have been examined at length, here and on many other sites, and have been shown to be either straightforward bunk (errors and lies), or meaningless subjective speculation and interpretations.

They hide under the excuse of "I'm just asking questions", and claim they are performing a legitimate role of fact-checking the mainstream media - something, they say, which you could not possibly object to. This excuse has the ring of truth about it, as fact-checking is indeed an honorable pursuit and errors in the media should be exposed and corrected. But that's not what they are doing.

They are finding ordinary and expected inconsistencies in the reporting of chaotic events. They are offering their own subjective interpretations of events as alternative evidence. They latch on to the most trivial of coincidences (with their mantra of "there are no coincidences") as evidence of a conspiracy. Two women with the same haircut is evidence that they are the same woman, and hence an actor, and hence everything is fake. It's self-reinforcing confirmation bias taken to an extreme. It does not seem worthy of response.

And yet here on Metabunk we've taken them on, and debunked many of their claims. We have occasionally been criticized for doing this, as the claims are so outlandish, denying that people died, that they are deeply offensive to the relatives of the victims. This was particularly the case for Sandy Hook, where the conspiracy theorists have gone as far as harassing the parents of the children who were murdered. Should we even acknowledge these people? In debunking them are we actually giving them more attention than they would get if we just ignored them?

It's hard to draw the line. Some things are clearly way over it - suggestions than no planes hit the World Trade Center, or that what people saw were giant holograms, or that Sandy Hook School had actually been closed for years. Indeed you might think that the entire notion of events like Sandy Hook being fake, or the Boston Marathon Bombings being fake, is over the line - obviously ludicrous and offensive.

And yet some people believe it.

Now we are obviously not going to change the minds of the 

David Ickes

 or 

James Tracys

 of the world. These are people who's very identity, their entire reason for the way they live their lives, is tied up in their beliefs of a fake media and all major events being fake.

Nor are we going to change the minds of the "true believer", the conspiracy theorist who has been thinking like this for decades, the type of person for whom evidence that should contradict his beliefs will bizarrely reinforce them. Where pointing out the errors in their evidence is simply more evidence that they are correct. They do come around, but very rarely.

But then there are vastly more people on the fringes of conspiracy theory than there are deeply buried inside it. In particular there are many young people - people who are very impressionable, with flexible minds that soak up new ideas quickly, but who are also able to drop those ideas when they are shown they are incorrect. It is this group that is the target audience for the majority of the debunking on Metabunk.

Conspiracy thinking, conspiracy ideation, is a black hole, a dark rabbit hole that once you get deep enough into, it is very hard to escape from. When I debunk I hope I'm preventing people from falling into that hole, or if they are already in it I hope to keep them close enough to the light so they will eventually climb out themselves.

And that's why I address ludicrous and offensive theories like the Sandy Hook shootings being fake. It's not in the hope of changing the minds of the people who come up with the ridiculous claims of evidence - they are generally deep down the rabbit hole. It's to help people out who are not in too deep, and to help people not fall into in the first place - particularly the young. 

And so yes, I think we should address the inevitable Charlie Hebdo conspiracy theories. But only if it seems like they have some traction, if they might actually be influencing people. We don't need to respond to every single labored YouTube video of "why was this person stood there" type thing - especially if nobody is watching those videos. But if people are being taken in by claims, if their young or overly-open minds are being darkened by bunk, then I think debunking has a place here.

[Cambo]

I'm no expert on this but I believe that those involved in the murders could not of acted alone as they were armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles which surely can't be that easy to obtain unless there's a network of supplying arms to those wishing to carry out such attacks? so someone must of supplied these also the manner in which they carried out this vile attack would suggest an element of training & planning?

[Guest smartieno1]

Glad to see the haters still hate......did you know that hating can shorten your life by up to 2.5 years

[Aylestone Voice]

I think the only haters are those with the guns shooting innocent people

[Colin James]

I think the only haters are those with the guns shooting innocent people

 

They are cowards too.

[WirralPC]

Mick mentioned 9/11.  I don't want to go right off the current subject, but something needs to be addressed.

 

I don't know about anyone else reading this, but the one single thing that has genuinely puzzled me about 9/11, and for about 10 years, is the collapse of building WTC 7.

 

One second it was standing (although on fire halfway up one side), the next second, the whole of it from top to bottom was in freefall collapse towards the ground.  The subsequent 9/11 commission did not explain how a steel reinforced concrete building could collapse in this way.  Previously, buildings of similar structure with fires stood there and burned for hours if not days.  The 9/11 commission's findings still defy the universal laws of physics as we understand them.

 

In a choice between the laws of physics and the limited findings of a set of highly-placed bureaucrats with vested interests, I will come down with the former.

 

Respected scientists are unlikely to publicly come forward and question these matters because there will be consequences.  Their reputations will be slammed, they'll be associated with David Icke, prizes, honours and awards and future careers will be jeopardised.  So it's easier to keep shtum.

 

Back in 2001, the internet was more or less in its infancy compared to today.  It took many years before the greater extent of 9/11 information gradually seeped out.

 

Even today if you stop people on the street and ask them how many buildings completely collapsed on 9/11, many people will tell you "two".  Mainly because we're spoonfed a controlled diet from the box in the corner, or the papers in our hand, through the prism of the mainstream media (with the associated corporate connections).

 

The thrust of what I'm saying is... don't immediately believe what the news channels are telling you.  And nobody does themselves any favours by making assumptions.  Be clinical about it, wait for the information, question it and be businesslike.  Don't go shooting off at the mouth about how all muslims should be sent packing.  Despite the deaths, Nigel Farage was close to gloating on Channel Four News last night because the events appeared to vindicate what he regards as his 'progressive' anti-Muslim stance.

 

How does Europe stand as one against this 'Islamic Threat' (the one that has now replaced the Soviet Union), with him undermining cohesion every step of the way?

 

I can say all this because I have no interest, no job to lose.  No job to apply for.  I'm now unemployable.  But I don't want to live in a society ruled by fear and intrusive governments - which all came a step closer following the events in Paris.   And who knows what;s next?

 

To answer K. Butt, wearing a mask does not translate directly to 'cowardice'.  Our own heroes wear masks.  Think about it logically and with a cool head.  Not being able to match those attackers to the names being given has other implications.

 

George Bush branded the 9/11 hijackers as cowards.  Regardless of whether the official conspiracy theory is correct or not.....................   really?

[twowheelsgood]

I cannot believe what I have just read, well actually I can...I suppose the people who died never really died either eh and they were just a load of actors who have been paid off. I find these conspiracy topics even more offending!!!       Shame on you.

 

Agreed. Use ' ignore posts by' and you are spared his nonsense - I added that name a while ago.

[greenknight]

Yes WirralPC you are correct about building 7 and the conspiracy theories set around it not helped by the fact that it did house certain government organizations. An old mate of mine worked at ConEd utilities who had a small suite there. I believe it's now thought that the steel structure melted. Everybody did get out though.

 

Even this post has highlighted how easy we can divide over such emotive events.....fortunately I still have faith in our democratic process ....at least as it currently stands. Besides where would we be without Private Eye or old copies of Punch! Now I'm off to the "Commercial" to find Bobby47 and see if he will share my copy of Harper's bazaar!!

[WirralPC]

To say "it's now thought that the steel structure melted" and move on from that is preposterous. In the extreme.

 

We're back with physics; the melting point of steel; the added complication that aviation fuel was not a factor; and most compelling, the uniform collapse of the whole thing at once, transformed from a building into rubble in a few seconds.

[bobby47]

Cardin, I'll follow you to most places. Slavishly I'll hang on your every word. The Council can tippy toe round here, scurry up my drainpipe and drag me away to be water boarded and I'll never betray you.

They can cut off my utilities, threaten me with a thrice yearly bin collection and still I'll remain loyal to you. But, on this one, that relates to the melting point of the girders deliberately installed to protect those twin towers and stop them toppling over and killing thousands, you my dear and good friend, are on your own. I'll be damned if I join you.

Happy New Year pal.

[Guest smartieno1]

20 years ago any talk about jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris and peadophile priests would have been considered a conspiracy and people talking about it would have been met with hostility and shouts of shame on you

[Guest smartieno1]

And to those of you who are afraid to think outside the box here' are some links to Conspiracies Theories that turned out to be true:

http://www.oddee.com/item_99023.aspx

http://www.infowars.com/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true-what-every-person-should-know/



 

[WirralPC]

Thanks Bob. But what I'm saying is nobody has explained the collapse of WTC7. Nothing to do with the twin towers.

 

I'm not putting forward any theories here. Just asking pertinent questions. You don't even NEED to distance yourself from any stench I'm giving off.........

 

As an engineer who's interested in such things, I need to be convinced properly, not given wild cock and bull stories about how "the steel melted" by people who have the onus on them to be more forthcoming with detailed answers.

 

... at risk of descending into cliche, your posts in 2015 have been awesome !

 

Happy New Year.

 

Cardin, I'll follow you to most places. Slavishly I'll hang on your every word. The Council can tippy toe round here, scurry up my drainpipe and drag me away to be water boarded and I'll never betray you.

 

They can cut off my utilities, threaten me with a thrice yearly bin collection and still I'll remain loyal to you. But, on this one, that relates to the melting point of the girders deliberately installed to protect those twin towers and stop them toppling over and killing thousands, you my dear and good friend, are on your own. I'll be damned if I join you.

Happy New Year pal.

[bobby47]

Your still on your own pal. Like your Manager Roberto, you've got problems and despite our friendship, you are still on your own with this little cutie. Take care pal. Goodnight.

[Colin James]

Okay guys, we are totally off topic now, back to 'Freedom Of Speech' please and the apparent Paris Shootings.

 

Any other off topics will be removed.

[Frank Smith]

I am fed up treading on eggshells with these fanatics! They preach on our streets and nothing is done, yet when someone says the slightest thing the events of today happen over and over, I hope they rot in hell! Yes yes masked always! Such cowards!!!!!

 

All in the name of so called religion. This magazine has every right to publish and criticise all religions (which it often does) politicians etc..why should Islam be immune?