LED Lights Roll Out Across Herefordshire

[Colin James]

Work started yesterday (Monday 12 January) to install new low-energy street lighting along Herefordshire’s roads.

 

The £5.5 million green project starts in Whitecross, Hereford and will be rolled out across the whole county over the coming months.

 

Herefordshire Council’s public realm contractor, Balfour Beatty Living Places (BBLP), is replacing all 9,000 street lights with LEDs.

 

LEDs are expected to save the council £13.3 million over the next 20 years.

 

Cllr Philip Price, Herefordshire Council’s cabinet member infrastructure, said: “This is our largest-ever carbon reduction project.”

 

He added: “Not only is it good for the environment, but it will bring us substantial savings through lower energy costs and maintenance bills and will reduce light pollution, too.”

 

The final, and largest, phase of LED street lighting is expected to take a year to complete. This includes replacing about a quarter of all lampposts.

 

A third of Herefordshire’s street lights have already been replaced at a cost of £1.5 million.

 

BBLPs principal lighting engineer, Mark Tidswell, said: “Upon completion, the energy consumption of street lighting in Herefordshire will be vastly reduced, as will the ongoing future maintenance burden. 

 

“As well as the work on site, much will be going on behind the scenes updating the council’s systems and inventories to ensure the financial savings are realised as early as possible”.

 

The new LEDs will be dimmed to save money and reduce light pollution. Approximate times are:

 

Dusk to 10pm (100% of full power)

10pm to midnight (80% of full power)

Midnight to 5.30am (50% of full power) 

5.30am to dawn (100% of full power)

 

 

My concerns are some of the local taxi drivers refusing to take shorter trips and now with dimmed lights from midnight until 5am this emphasises this issue even more!  People being refused a cab during the early hours to then having to walk home with 50% less light is a possible recipe for additional crime.

[WirralPC]

No mention of the Spanish scientific survey which warned that LED "white" light sources operate next to the dangerous ultra violet extreme of the visual spectrum. The danger may be that excessive exposure (think police, taxi drivers, ambulance drivers / wildlife) causes permanent, irreversible damage to the retina.

 

It's been interesting to watch them being developed over time. And great that they are now more efficient than their predecessors and last much longer. But the down side is being ignored by vested private interests who stand to make a killing with huge upgrading contracts like this one.

 

It's a similar issue to the use of mobile phones next to the brain. The future health effects are uncertain but we could be sitting on a timebomb.

[Steve Major]

I think that this is long overdue, money saving in the long term, first I have heard of any dangers but then again, everything is apparently dangerous these days if you believe everything you read, I have LED's throughout my house so I'm doomed then. 

[Alex]

The newer LED bulbs throw out more light than the older bulbs its just more directed with a lot less pollution. The taxi drivers refusing fares certainly needs dealing with by the council before something happens to a lonely person having to walk home because of their refusal to take them.

[WirralPC]

I think that this is long overdue, money saving in the long term, first I have heard of any dangers but then again, everything is apparently dangerous these days if you believe everything you read, I have LED's throughout my house so I'm doomed then.

Thanks for getting into the spirit of this by conducting your own home-based survey.

 

What were the readings for luminous flux output of your various domestic LED light sources?

 

Did they get above 2,100 lm? (the lowest output light source for such exterior street lighting conversion work)

 

Or were they *markedly* less?

 

Oh... sound advice that btw - not to believe everything you read :)

[Roger]

I'm not sure if this £13M saving is before or after you include the apparent £7M it will cost for the overall replacement of the equipment. 

 

I'm not too bothered about the potential of being fried alive by these new style diodes but over the course of 20 years the saving is peanuts. It's rather like celebrating because you've found a quid down the back of the sofa. But I won't knock the carbon reduction intentions ... 

[megilleland]

We have had LED street lights for over a year in our street and I find them ok. I have just reported one which remains on during the day. You can easily report faulty street lights to the Council here on this map showing all the street lights in the city. Just click on the street light in your street and fill in a few points. The grey street lights shown on the map are maintained by other authorities ie Herefordshire Housing. 

[Biomech]

Sounds like a good idea, but from what I've seen the LED's don't give off enough light to light post to post, someone always said that the lamp posts are too high for retrofitting LEDs
 

I'm not sure if this £13M saving is before or after you include the apparent £7M it will cost for the overall replacement of the equipment. 

 

 

That's exactly what I thought. I that's to come off, that £6 million pretty much covers the costs of their biscuits for 20 years

[Glenda Powell]

Led street lights were installed in Belmont around 18 months ago, at the time was getting a lot of complaints about not enough light between lamp standards, elderly people said they could not see to walk up their garden paths etc, but have not been contacted since. Personally I do not like them and I do not think it is a good idea to dim them at night.

[Colin James]

You might be surprised but the LED lights were installed in Belmont 3 years ago in February 2012. How time flies

[Biomech]

at the time was getting a lot of complaints about not enough light between lamp standards

 

 

 

I've noticed that they don't fill the light from one post to the next

[dippyhippy]

Biomech!!!

 

Have you managed to escape from your captors????

 

I thought about putting up a "Missing Poster" poster.....trouble is, you look exactly like me......and Bobby...and Flam....and Two Wheels.......and....!!!!!

 

Good to hear from you again!

[megilleland]

You might be surprised but the LED lights were installed in Belmont 3 years ago in February 2012. How time flies

 

That's right Colin a dim distant memory.

[Chris Adcocks]

I personally think the lights in Belmont were a rush job. Sticking LED lights on old posts was not the answer. The new lights do not throw out enough light. Straight roads are fine but if you live in a mews or cul-de-sac forget it. Walking in the dark.

[dippyhippy]

This would appear to be happening in my neck of the woods, and I am slightly concerned about other posters reports of how effective they are.

 

I often walk the dog, alone and in the dark, and have always felt perfectly safe doing so....partly because despite the odd incident, I do strongly believe that Herefordshire is a very safe place to live, and partly because the streets are so well lit.

 

I shall report back with my findings, when my area has been completed!

[WirralPC]

Just to comment on this "the space between lampposts not being lit" issue; when the man at the council designs a scheme, he reaches measurements for average illuminance overall, minimum point illuminance and much more I won't bore you all with.  Sometimes, schemes are measured in luminance, or the light reflected from surfaces.

 

These days it's all done on computer with clever software e.g. Lighting Reality - which when I last used it in anger six years ago was an excellent piece of kit.  To the naked eye, it may seem that it's unusually dark halfway between each lamppost, but if the scheme's been designed correctly, whether it's existing lampposts being re-used or new ones installed, and they're in the right place, then all should be okay.

 

I'd say if you have concerns that the road IS underlit, ask Bill Norman or whoever has the necessary influence, to get someone qualified out with a light meter (paying them overtime) to traipse up and down the road, take periodic readings and check that it is 'to standard'.

[dippyhippy]

Thanks for that advice Paul!

 

I may do just that.....or get a bigger dog!

 

Seriously though, a very informative comment.

[Glenda Powell]

Hi Chris, welcome back I have to agree with your comments

[twowheelsgood]

(edit)

 

I'd say if you have concerns that the road IS underlit, ask Bill Norman or whoever has the necessary influence, to get someone qualified out with a light meter (paying them overtime) to traipse up and down the road, take periodic readings and check that it is 'to standard'.

 

Well, there are lies, damned lies and then there are Council figures - the widespread public perception (from reports all over the UK) is that the light spread from led's is poor and that dark areas are left between posts - you don't need a light meter to show this, a plain old pair of eyes does the job. The light meter may say they're up to spec, but I would say the spec is wrong. And that is where the politicians come in, because Balfour Beatty will just point to the rule book, shrug their shoulders and bank the money. If we want something that works, rather than just ticks a box, then the politicians have to ensure we get it, and now, before it is too late. Once the work is done the Council will NEVER review it.

 

 

 

 

[Ubique]

I would sooner believe the knowledge posted by members of this forum than the spin circulated by the Council . I am sure that

( some ) of the Cllrs responsible for areas where these lights reduce safety for pedestrians will soon be passing on their concerns .

If not I am sure that HV Posters will .

[WirralPC]

Well, there are lies, damned lies and then there are Council figures - the widespread public perception (from reports all over the UK) is that the light spread from led's is poor and that dark areas are left between posts - you don't need a light meter to show this, a plain old pair of eyes does the job. The light meter may say they're up to spec, but I would say the spec is wrong. And that is where the politicians come in, because Balfour Beatty will just point to the rule book, shrug their shoulders and bank the money. If we want something that works, rather than just ticks a box, then the politicians have to ensure we get it, and now, before it is too late. Once the work is done the Council will NEVER review it.

 

Thanks TWG.

Cutting through all the superfluous stuff, your issue appears to be with the British and European Agencies that came up with the "BS EN 13201:2003" Street Lighting Standard.  BS5489 was the predecessor to this.  Presumably this standard was okay with you, but it went out of circulation a few years back.  If there were any "dark areas" as you describe them, they'd be picked up during the design phase.

 

Herefordshire's streets should have been designed to these standards.  Here are the potential causes of a street not being lit to standard:

 

Failure on the part of the lighting designer

Failure on the part of the lighting contractor

Eventual failure caused by diminution of lamp lumen output

 

If a light meter (correctly used) proves that these LED installations haven't been lit to standard (assuming the council is truthful and is capable of honest self-evaluation) then the public have a case against them.

 

But if they ARE lit to standard you will then need to press central government and the European Commission to up the values for illuminance set out in the above standard.

 

This "widespread public perception" that you quote means very little if it isn't backed up by getting out there at night with correctly calibrated equipment and measuring what's going on.

 

The councillor contributing to this thread should be taking note of this, rather than granting false hope to a few ill-informed constituents.

 

Get googling on these technical issues before going off half-cocked !

[Chris Adcocks]

:Hmm:Very interesting reading, but how long has LED lighting been able to shine around corners???

[twowheelsgood]

 

Cutting through all the superfluous stuff

Get googling on these technical issues before going off half-cocked !

 

I don't do half cocked - and I'm far from ill informed - you seem to miss the point of my post completely - I'm not interested in what the Government and even less what the EU have to say. This is a local issue - councillors are quite capable of arguing for better than minimum provision should they feel what is being provided is perceived as inadequate to the point that people feel unsafe and are unable to see the uneven surface of our crumbling pavements to pick a safe route.

[WirralPC]

I don't do half cocked - and I'm far from ill informed - you seem to miss the point of my post completely - I'm not interested in what the Government and even less what the EU have to say. This is a local issue - councillors are quite capable of arguing for better than minimum provision should they feel what is being provided is perceived as inadequate to the point that people feel unsafe and are unable to see the uneven surface of our crumbling pavements to pick a safe route.

 

 

Correct.  I did miss the point of your post.  Because there wasn't one.  On this subject, I'm afraid you're floundering.

 

I've patiently explained the position to you and you're still sounding off, with nothing much to back yourself up apart from hunches and guesswork.

 

If the council's lighting designers and contractors have met the requirements of the BS EN 13201:2003 street lighting standard, you're on a hiding to nothing, and groping in the dark in more ways than one.

 

If they haven't met that standard, I've told you how to go about putting the situation right.  But no, you're not having it.  You're not happy and you won't be reasoned with.

[WirralPC]

Led street lights were installed in Belmont around 18 months ago, at the time was getting a lot of complaints about not enough light between lamp standards, elderly people said they could not see to walk up their garden paths etc, but have not been contacted since. Personally I do not like them and I do not think it is a good idea to dim them at night.

 

Street lights are there to light the street, not garden paths !

[twowheelsgood]

Correct.  I did miss the point of your post.  Because there wasn't one.  On this subject, I'm afraid you're floundering.

 

I've patiently explained the position to you and you're still sounding off, with nothing much to back yourself up apart from hunches and guesswork.

 

If the council's lighting designers and contractors have met the requirements of the BS EN 13201:2003 street lighting standard, you're on a hiding to nothing, and groping in the dark in more ways than one.

 

If they haven't met that standard, I've told you how to go about putting the situation right.  But no, you're not having it.  You're not happy and you won't be reasoned with.

I'm not happy with your rudeness. 

[dippyhippy]

As someone who respects the opinions of both Wirral PC and Two Wheels, could I raise my hand tentatively to make an observation??

 

I know nothing about the technicalities of this, but reading through this thread I think you are  both right. Paul has given us all the information that Councils and various bodies use to measure minimum light requirements for street lighting, and Two Wheels has quite rightly pointed out, that if the minimum doesn't do the job, it should be up to our elected leaders to argue for improvements.

 

They are both valid comments, from informative posters, and I have learnt something from them both.

[Biomech]

 you don't need a light meter to show this, a plain old pair of eyes does the job.

 

 

 

I have to agree, there is a visible difference between the old lights and LED lights lighting up the spaces in between. Whether they are up to spec or not is another issue, but there is a difference. If you're really lucky, I'll even go and do some testing :)