Freedom church members running for councillors

[Roger]

In what way has Roger been cheated?  The councillor will be paid the same amount of expenses regardless of whether he gives 10% to the Mormons, puts 50% in the collection tray at church on a Sunday, or spends 100% of it on beer on a Friday night.

 

I'm pretty sure some/most Councillors will spend some of their expenses on doing various stuff that I wouldn't spend cash on ... If the cash was claimed correctly then I'm not bothered. I don't really know how/why Mormons are being heavily featured here .... There are obviously Mormons here in Hereford but I'm not aware of any standing for Election .... 

[WirralPC]

Wrong.  Amounts of expenses vary.

 

He didn't tell Roger that 10 per cent of his allowance would regularly and unavoidably be sent abroad to fund religious zealots, and that he would have to do this or find himself at risk of being viewed in a poor light by the Mormon Church.  So, not the kind of information that would usually enhance or promote a person's electoral chances with the non-Mormon UK public e.g. Roger ...or perhaps I'm wrong in your view?

 

If he won with a majority of say six, and he'd failed to tell at least seven constituents about this fact, he's cheated Roger and at least six others - and gained by not mentioning it.

 

He may not be breaking any statutory law, but it's deceitfulness by specific omission, or cheating.

 

In this way, Roger has been cheated.

[WirralPC]

Mormons are being used as an example Roger.  It's not real.

[Roger]

Mormons are being used as an example Roger.  It's not real.

 

Strangely I know how local elections work .... I'm very engaged actually ... Roger Goodwin (who lives on the College Estate) missed me when he rang my doorbell on Sunday. I was elsewhere. He is more than welcome to ring it again. My ward (according to a certain candidate) has 2500 voters with 300 classed as postal (approx) ..... His figures and not mine. I've already worked out that 1% of all postal votes in my ward are at my house .... 

[Roger Edwards]

I have read all your comments with lots of interests. I thought we were not prejudice against religion or ethnic origin, race, colour or creed.

 

I must have lived a sheltered life, as  I haven’t heard of Freedom church.

[dippyhippy]

Hello there Roger, nice to hear from you.

 

Obviously I only speak for myself......

 

I have no issues whatsoever with anybody's colour, creed, religion, ethnicity, sexual preference....... etc etc.

 

I do have an issue with how this "business", because that's what I see it as being, operates.

 

Many have described this group as a cult, who take advantage of folk when they are at a vulnerable place in their lives.

 

It is THIS that I have an issue with.

 

There is another thread covering this subject, please take the time to read it. It explains many of the reasons why I feel extremely uneasy about this particular group.

[Sebaileyus_PhD]

Hi guys

 

Just to add my 2 cents on this. Applying to councillor positions you are required to declare any POLITICAL affiliations you have, but no other interests,vat least at this stage. after election I believe you have to declare business interests. So, leaving aside the religion as a business or religion as political debates, people running for these positions do not have to declare a faith or church membership etc. Nor should they in my opinion. In doing so they open themselves to criticisms that they may not deserve. For example gay marriage, not everyone who opposes it is Christian and not everyone who is Christian opposes it.

 

With reference to giving money away, what I believe you are mostly referring to here is (as a Google search reveals) a tithe, which translated means tenth. Many Christians give away 10% or more of their income to charities. This is usually a church, but also often mission and aid work in the form of sponsored children's educations, well digging, school building etc. So before stones are cast and inferences made, how much do any of you give to charities out of your pay each month? When you can say you support projects across the UK and rest of the world to the tune of 10% of your earnings, then you can start telling people how to spend their earnings. I get paid 5k a year at present and 10% goes to british charities, such as the hope support services in ross.

 

County councillors are given their 7k a year taxable income In exchange for their duties performed. It is not "spending public money" any more than any council employee spending their wages on a McDonald's is spending public money.

 

Seb

[dippyhippy]

Precisely £24.00 per month.

 

Much less than a tenth!

 

Oxfam and Dogs Trust are two of my three regulars!

[Cambo]

Hi guys

 

Just to add my 2 cents on this. Applying to councillor positions you are required to declare any POLITICAL affiliations you have, but no other interests,vat least at this stage. after election I believe you have to declare business interests. So, leaving aside the religion as a business or religion as political debates, people running for these positions do not have to declare a faith or church membership etc. Nor should they in my opinion. In doing so they open themselves to criticisms that they may not deserve. For example *** marriage, not everyone who opposes it is Christian and not everyone who is Christian opposes it.

 

With reference to giving money away, what I believe you are mostly referring to here is (as a Google search reveals) a tithe, which translated means tenth. Many Christians give away 10% or more of their income to charities. This is usually a church, but also often mission and aid work in the form of sponsored children's educations, well digging, school building etc. So before stones are cast and inferences made, how much do any of you give to charities out of your pay each month? When you can say you support projects across the UK and rest of the world to the tune of 10% of your earnings, then you can start telling people how to spend their earnings. I get paid 5k a year at present and 10% goes to british charities, such as the hope support services in ross.

 

County councillors are given their 7k a year taxable income In exchange for their duties performed. It is not "spending public money" any more than any council employee spending their wages on a McDonald's is spending public money.

 

Seb

I'd say I'm in agreement with you,about what people do with there wages it's there's, they earn't it,so it's up to them what they do with it & some would rather give there's to a charity & some would rather give it to a publican?!… but as long as it is not illegal or money laundering or some other illegal activity then it's there business.

 

Also as long as it is not coerced out of them by any type of organisation may they be religious or other?…then that I do have a problem with.

 

But there are some organisations out there that I'd consider, use unethical methods to obtain peoples hard earned cash then I also have a problem with that!

 

I give to charity what I can afford some months it's more,some months it's less…also I do have a issue about how some of these charities go about raising there revenue,it can be aggressive & intimidating!

[Chris Chappell]

Maybe I need to declare an interest. My dad was a vicar and I attend Challenge Community Church in Belmont Road. Reference is made in my leaflet that has gone into every home in the Ward. I worked for the Salvation Army when I did VSO in Chile running an orphanage and farm.

So my dad took in drunks, druggies, the homeless. He was a war hero who as a naval chaplain won the DSC. My church does the same and many of them are Street Pastors. None of this should make any difference to whether someone will make a good councillor or not.

 

These are my private and personal beliefs which I do not expect anyone else to share. Nor do I push them on to anyone else.

Many of my friends and family are agnostic or atheists, some are Moslem or Jews. I even have a friend who is a conservative! As a life long socialist I do not expect the rest of you to share my political views. What I do with my money is my business. I am not telling anyone how I spend it and it has nothing to do with standing for election as a councillor.

 

Ok, so I think Sebastian is wrong to be a conservative. I do not share his view of the bible, but I will defend his right to be one what ever the cost. Got a feeling that other bloggers may share that view?.

Ps. The Bishop of Hereford's son is the Labour candidate for Bury in the general election. Do not know if he is a Christian but surely we are not saying he should not claim any expenses if he is elected?

[dippyhippy]

I have absolutely no issue with anything you have said, Chris.

 

In fact I think what you have posted is wonderful.

 

As I said and explained in my earlier post on this thread (36), I only have an issue with Freedom Church.

 

This is nothing to do with religion..... in so many ways!

[Denise Lloyd]

Chris well done for saying what you said you make a lot of very sensible sense.  However I think the crux of the matter is you do not push your views on anybody else and your religion is basically your business.  The problem is when vulnerable needy people are drawn into a particular religion and perhaps coherced into believing that religion is their only way forward and so the story continues.  

 

Dam it all Freedom Church have set up Leadership courses charging quite a tidy sum.  You pay in advance and there are no refunds if yuo do not complete the course.  You do not come out with a certificate on completion you just come out with the experience.  And that is normal practice?  

[Cambo]

Chris I have total respect for you as your one of the few cllr's who can be both to come onto the voice & intereact with us guys on a regular basis & might I add long may it continue…but I think your missing the point?

 

I think this has to do with honesty & being transparent unless a perspective candidate had something to hid why would they not declare an interest to a organisation if there was one when asked?

After all i'd want to know, because if they have an interest to organisation who's views & methods I disagreed with then that could affect,if I voted for them or not?…otherwise I could well feel cheated of my vote if I was not made aware of a link & then vote for them!

[Roger]

I think this has to do with honesty & being transparent unless a perspective candidate had something to hid why would they not declare an interest to a organisation if there was one when asked?

 

This 'Freedom Church' story has been bubbling away, locally, for a few months now. If a candidate for Council was playing any sort of role in that Church which was above the usual sort of radar (attending/worship) then I would be disappointed if they never mentioned it in their leaflet. I have accrued loads of leaflets recently. 

[Glenda Powell]

Just to clarify councillor expenses  we get just over £7,000 a year it is not given to a councillor to spend it as they wish it is for your councillor work, letters, postage, phone calls, computer equipment, and travel expenses to get to meetings. When you claim expenses you have  to give receipts otherwise you cannot claim it.

[WirralPC]

As mentioned previously, we have a plates-of-Nephi-bashing Mormon councillor (with a thoroughly dodgy and irreligious business and private life) up for election and not declaring his tithe to the electorate here on Wirral.

 

It may not strictly be deception, but in my book, failing to declare to prospective voters a drain on recycled council cash, whilst seeking their mandate for your own ends is deceiving / cheating them.  I mean, what's his prime motivation? Representing those voters to the best of his ability, or advancing his political / religious career; getting on as many paying committees as he can in order to ingratiate himself with the aptly named 'President' and swelling the coffers of a crowd of people who believe Jesus appeared in America at the time of the resurrection?

 

If his intentions are honourable, why not declare it?

 

And what some of us are privy to regarding this bloke and his current behaviour....

 

https://www.facebook.com/MormonNewsroom/posts/132024843600428Rt

 

...might even tempt JC down to Birkenhead for a reprise of his 'kicking the tables over in the temple' session.

[WirralPC]

Just to clarify councillor expenses  we get just over £7,000 a year it is not given to a councillor to spend it as they wish it is for your councillor work, letters, postage, phone calls, computer equipment, and travel expenses to get to meetings. When you claim expenses you have to have to give receipts otherwise you cannot claim it.

 

What about your allowance Glenda?  As distinct from your expenses?

[Roger]

Just to clarify councillor expenses  we get just over £7,000 a year it is not given to a councillor to spend it as they wish it is for your councillor work, letters, postage, phone calls, computer equipment, and travel expenses to get to meetings. When you claim expenses you have to have to give receipts otherwise you cannot claim it.

 

I don't think expenses are at issue here this time. Not for the moment. I think it's about Candidates/motives/agenda's. I immediately became wary when all the grass cutting machinery came out twice in Churchill Gardens in the last two weeks or so. Funny that! Election on May 7 ! I had to disappoint Brian Wilcox today with the information that I won't be voting for him. He timed his visit in such a way that I expect postal ballots via my letter box tomorrow! 

 

On a side issue his visit (not his fault) resulted in me rushing to the door .... (as the dogs were going crazy reacting to my door bell) and I neglected my lunch I had just bought from the College Green Chippy ..... After the chat at the door I returned and found it was gone .... £3.55 I will never see again! Learning curve for me! 

[Denise Lloyd]

Was the dinner in your dogs?