flamboyant Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Next Friday and Saturday at Whitecross School there is a meeting about the development of the Three Elms site on the west of Hereford City. The Church Commisoners who own the land have to tick a box that they have covered "community involvement" prior to making a planning application later. On the following Tuesday evening (19th) they will present their "findings" about "what local people want", according to what people have said at the "consultation" events. So if any of you can get there to ask questions, do it! This is not just about Three Elms, there are many ways in which this can affect the future planning of the whole of Hereford. (Full details on Land at Three Elms thread) Cloudberry the decision has already been made, the Consultation will not see the light of day! I'm afraid this will go ahead regardless of public opinion. Can someone point me to a Consultatiin that actually changed the course of action originally proposed?
flamboyant Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 I'm thinking this and I've switched off that filter in my head that stops me saying something that I know is going to provoke a strong reaction but I feel I have to say it and be dammed! IOC/ Indies you knew it was a risk to stand against an independent/ IOC candidate but you did it anyway! No amount of backtracking will alter that fact. Sorry to one an all but if I had been an IOC candidate or an Independent standing in my Ward I would have stood down rather than run the risk of splitting the vote! When I hear stories commending each other on what a good Councillor the Independent/ IOC candidate would have made from the IOC / Independent to each other I'm afraid it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and I have the urge to scream! Mikefitz, Cambo and Dazza one of you should have stood down in your Wards particularly as none of you is saying they would have done any better than their IOC/ independent opponent. I'm sorry but I have to be brutal and say that IOC still haven't got their Act together and until they do they have no chance of achieving their goal! If IOC are true to their ethos I'm concerned why the greater good didn't win through over party politics. Analysis clearly shows that the vote was split and if it hadn't been we would be looking at a whole different scenario! I await the inevitable lambasting!
Denise Lloyd Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Absolutely agree with you if IOC had been more strategic in their placement of candidates instead of going for broke and flooding the market things COULD have been different. But that was yesterday we somehow have to find a way of moving forward and making this devastation work to our advantage.
The Sacrificial Ham Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Long time lurker, first time poster here. Thought I'd provide some general thoughts. I'm as dismayed as the rest of you at the seismic leap backwards that this past couple of days represents for local politics. That being said, I don't apportion the bulk of the blame to the people of Hereford or even the Tory candidates - I'll blame them for most other things, but not their election to the Council. The most significant determining factor, in my opinion, is the foolhardy leadership of the IOC and Independent. It might be that both are to blame, it might be that just one or the other was too obstinate and blinkered to negotiate with the other. Whilst I've have read on here that the IOC have had numerous attempts to coalesce or at least synergize the two parties approach to local politics rebuffed by Cllr Matthews, I do not have any substantive knowledge on this matter so it would be unfair of me to lay the blame solely at his door. Eitherway, I'm afraid the ABC (Anyone But Conservatives) opposition need to look internally for reasons of failure before blaming others. I would go as far as to say this point in time is the crossroads of local politics for the foreseeable future - keep on as two individual entities and the Tories will continue to sneak seats with 35-40% of the vote and remain in power; or have a bit of joined up thinking and at least force the Tories to need closer to 50% to take each constituency. The most obvious (and galling) case in point is of course Hagley Ward. Bingo's mate takes the ward with a 37% (!!!!) portion of the vote. The combined efforts of the two candidates with more humane morals (and hair growth) had 63% of the vote. That's not clutching at straws. Add in any proportion of uncertainty and the joined up thinking of IOC and Indies would've smashed Hagley Ward. On a separate note, I feel for Amanda who is clearly someone in politics for the right reasons, but is Cllr Andrews really the one to take the fight to, to use one of your best weapons against? From where I am, Polly has done a great job and Herefordshire Council is better for having her within it's make-up. We shouldn't have been forced to chose between the two, we should've had both. As someone else has suggested, perhaps a switcheroo with Whitecross and Widemarsh IOC candidates. Finally, advertisement! Where was it? I didn't feel the campaign outside of a couple of constituencies yet Tory banners were everywhere. With better advertising and championing surely a few more close seats could've been edged? Please don't take this as a slight against individual efforts which I know were often huge, it's more about the IOC branding, for those of us who weren't in when the knock came or for those who, as has been mentioned previously, just picked a familiar name. To retake a politics quote from it's sporting foster parent, it's all about marginal gains. A better overall strategy may manifested itself in a signifcant cahnge to the make up of the Council we see now. A good, and quite unbelievable, example would be the Tory Fort Knox of Golden Valley North. Firstly, IOC and Indies combined came close being just 20 odd votes behind. Unite the ABC approach and we're almost there. On the back of a strong County-wide campaign and who knows! Errors we're made, but oddly, this very fact gives me hope. There's so much to improve on, so many ways to work on what are very solid foundations. I just hope that in 4/5 years time, we look back on these errors as necessary learning curves for growth and not damning mistakes.
flamboyant Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Denise we can only move forward when we admit our mistakes and don't make them again. People need to feel free to voice their opinions and take critism on the chin hold their hands up and say 'yep' big mistake won't be doing that again! It's not a question of forgetting about it and moving on, it's not yesterday it's today and I want an assurance that they won't make the same mistake again! Has everyone forgot we had the same discussion when Jon Norris stood in Pontillas? Ok on that occassion IOC came out on top but they gambled with the electorate it was a mistake then it's was a mistake yesterday and it will be a mistake going forward, trust me! We have a by-election in Saxon Gate and already the troups are lining up to do battle in Saxon Gate! No amount of canvassing will win that vote for IOC someone needs to persaude the Independent candidate to stand down! Early indications are that the independent held 96 votes, if half of the votes transferred to IOC they could actually win Saxon Gate! Does anyone know the independent candidate? Hopefully she's standing for the good of Hereford and will step down!
Glenda Powell Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Roger, what I am saying the voting papers were very confusing the amount of people when I knocked the doors were asking me what they should do and which papers was which, I spent a lot of time explaining the procedure to them, but of course I wasn't knocking doors in Saxon Gate so was unaware of the problem until yesterday and that in Saxon Gate they had filled them in wrong.
Amanda Martin Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Entirely agree with mikefitz, Denise Lloyd and others but I suspect that decisions have been taken against a moving backdrop. Historically, at least some of the Independents will have become Independents for a reason: they didn't like the Tory junta. Meanwhile, IOC's start had not risen high enough for them to have the confidence to accept the olive branches that I understand have, in fact, been offered at various points. I don't know the man personally but I understand Cllr Matthews may have been more interested in maintaining his power base than winning seats against the Tories and the rest is history. We've said it publicly and among ourselves that we're more than happy to look beyond the rosette. As long as someone is decent, shares IOC's ethical principles and has Herefordshire's interests at heart, we're happy to work with them. Our dialogue with the Greens was a case in point. Unfortunately the Green surge everyone hoped for did not materialise but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Some people have commented on IOC's low profile. I think this was absolutely the problem along with our inability to field a candidate at all in twelve wards. Even members of my own family told me they wouldn't have heard of us had it not been for my candidacy. I'm not saying we should all start shaving our heads or getting into baths of baked beans but we have to have a presence in the community - it's not enough to be effective in the chamber alone.
Cloudberry Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Yes, yes, a bit late, we can all see what went wrong. And yes, Amanda, IOC and Indies DO now need to get together to foster a presence in the community, and if people stop moaning and think about opportiunities, isn't that exactly what could be done at the "consultation" at Whitecross School?
Amanda Martin Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 TSH, I think the reason I was fielded in Widemarsh was to do with my transport planning background. Moorfields suffers badly from the traffic problem in the city and the idea was to deploy me to talk to the Highways Agency about the A49 if and when the occasion arose. In the aftermath of the Edgar Street tree campaign - which drew me and John Harrington into local politics in the first place - we met Jesse Norman and the Highways Agency to discuss Colin's "Lights Out" scheme - Colin attended that meeting also. The HA promised to model the network to assess the effects of this and I wanted them to look at reassigning road space on the A49 to cyclists. The HA never came back to us and we didn't press them because everyone thought that, after May 7th, there would a more sensible Council to deal with them directly. Polly clearly had a loyal following in Widemarsh. In spite of being a Lib Dem she doesn't agree with me on the transport issues and didn't oppose the Edgar Street pinch point scheme but, you know, she's the widow of a respected local GP and I was an anonymous lawyer! 'Nuff said !
The Sacrificial Ham Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 TSH, I think the reason I was fielded in Widemarsh was to do with my transport planning background. Moorfields suffers badly from the traffic problem in the city and the idea was to deploy me to talk to the Highways Agency about the A49 if and when the occasion arose. In the aftermath of the Edgar Street tree campaign - which drew me and John Harrington into local politics in the first place - we met Jesse Norman and the Highways Agency to discuss Colin's "Lights Out" scheme - Colin attended that meeting also. The HA promised to model the network to assess the effects of this and I wanted them to look at reassigning road space on the A49 to cyclists. The HA never came back to us and we didn't press them because everyone thought that, after May 7th, there would a more sensible Council to deal with them directly. Polly clearly had a loyal following in Widemarsh. In spite of being a Lib Dem she doesn't agree with me on the transport issues and didn't oppose the Edgar Street pinch point scheme but, you know, she's the widow of a respected local GP and I was an anonymous lawyer! 'Nuff said ! I appreciate where you're coming from. We'll have to agree to disagree about Polly's ability as a Cllr. Going off piste slightly, have you seen the state of the new trees along Newmarket Street? Absolutely shambolic - I'm sure they've died. Looking very withered with no leaves in mid-may. Those trees were so inherent to softening the new infrastructure. I've had no reply to my query to the Council as of yet.
Amanda Martin Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Yes I have noticed that, TSH. I've also noticed that the new lane has made no difference whatever to the traffic problem on the south bound Edgar Street. I don't really understand Polly's position on this. During the campaign she memorably commented that it was "just a few trees" and we should move on. To us, of course, it was a symptom of the wider problem of city degradation and the effect of this on economic vitality etc. Local economies need trees it seems. I might have anticipated that she would step up to defend her ward from the Tory barbarians but she didn't - she just went along with it. It didn't make sense.
Cambo Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Councillor the Independent/ IOC candidate would have made from the IOC / Independent to each other I'm afraid it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and I have the urge to scream! Mikefitz, Cambo and Dazza one of you should have stood down in your Wards particularly as none of you is saying they would have done any better than their IOC/ independent opponent. Flam I know your disappointed but I was not one of the candidates standing for either IOC or ind in fact I was not standing at all…because most of the time I was leg less!!!!
Amanda Martin Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 OK well we have to start from where we are. What has really upset me about this result is not so much losing my own seat but our IOC contingent having to sit impotently by while the Cabinet trash the county. John Harrington and I came into this from a particular perspective. On the transport/development stuff there was a lot riding on IOC gaining traction - now that that fox has been shot for the time being (just reminded myself that the Tories will repeal the hunting ban), there remains a serious and imminent problem. The bulldozers are on the horizon. Stopping the M4 Relief Road in 1995 was a mammoth effort: exhausting, all consuming and expensive. I asked myself, and Julian, whether I could do it all again. I'm 20 years older, no longer rich, probably not as effective and not in a relationship with a man who doesn't care where I am as long as I'm not spoiling his symphony. If I set a campaign hare running, I'm in it for the long haul and this time round could risk prosecution as well - the State is not as tolerant as it used to be. Then I think about Mike and Jean Harris and the destruction of the Lugg Meadows and I can't just sit by and do nothing. I've made my decision. I'm going to try to mobilise the people in Mike and Jean's area and in Bartestree, Tupsley and the east of the city who would be badly hit should the eastern link get the go ahead - from this we can try to generate a wider debate about transport in Hereford. I've read the consultants' reports on the various road schemes planned and now understand the wider agenda: to the west a housing boom and to the east a new strategic route by stealth. Amey and Parsons Brinkerhoff rejected the eastern link on traffic and environmental grounds and PB reported flaws in the assessments for the southern link but it won't stop the LEP and Cabinet from pushing them. The land has already been pegged and the planning application is imminent. There is a mountain of reports out there. Having read most of them, I have come round to the view that Amey or Parsons Brinkerhoff need to model the effect of a new bridge without the additional 3km section that would wreck Holywell Gutter Lane and Bartestree, depending on which route was chosen, and degrade the east of the city for a new trunk route through Hereford which of course is the LEP's objective. Jeanharris, I've heard on the grapevine that Jesse might support limiting the eastern scheme to a bridge only option - just the bridge, no link road. If we can get some traction behind this, it removes much of the rationale behind the southern link road. This, with the traffic reduction measures I've proposed, could be the answer. I'm convinced this is the way forward. I'm anti road building, not for the sake of it but because in most cases new roads don't solve the problem but I see the sense in another river crossing. We need to start writing to Jesse and to get access to him urgently and I hope councillors in affected wards will respond too. Ironically the other councillor whose ward is in the front line is Dave Greenow and who did win Stoney Street? If we don't act now, the resulting destruction is going to make the Edgar Street tree episode look like a bit of light pruning. In the meantime, Jeanharris, you need to decide whether you and Mike are up for the fight. I can tell you it's gruelling but democracy is a two way street and I know that if enough people get involved they could put pressure on their ward councillors. There are plenty of instances where local campaigns have changed minds and this is a local authority scheme - it should be stoppable. We could organise some public meetings and a demo at Plough Lane on the day the planning application is decided but we don't have much time. It's people power that will stop these roads now, not debate in the Chamber.
ragwert Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 When UKIP had three times more people who voted for them than the SNP and only end up with one person representing them in house of commonsyou know the UK needs electoral reform
Ubique Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 When UKIP had three times more people who voted for them than the SNP and only end up with one person representing them in house of commons you know the UK needs electoral reform Could not agree more , when I saw the % vote and the seats in Parliment for each Party it was unbelievable to my mind , I am sure that others have an opinion also . As an aside , I have felt privileged to read all these Posts , there are so many knowledgeable Poster on this site , and for that I thank you. I also believe that a very special thanks are due to Dippy , he / she has kept us all interested and involved in the local Elections with untiring energy and a few bottles of red ( he / she know how I feel about that ! )
Roger Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Long time lurker, first time poster here. Thought I'd provide some general thoughts. I'm as dismayed as the rest of you at the seismic leap backwards that this past couple of days represents for local politics. That being said, I don't apportion the bulk of the blame to the people of Hereford or even the Tory candidates - I'll blame them for most other things, but not their election to the Council. The most significant determining factor, in my opinion, is the foolhardy leadership of the IOC and Independent. I couldn't agree more. I live in the College Ward and we had both an IOC and an Independent candidate standing against an established Tory Councillor. They both appeared to me to be credible in their own ways but neither stood head and shoulders above the other and I told them to their faces that there was a very real danger of them splitting the non Tory vote. Which is exactly what happened. So something to learn from for next time.
flamboyant Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Flam I know your disappointed but I was not one of the candidates standing for either IOC or ind in fact I was not standing at all…because most of the time I was leg less!!!! Cambo where did I get the idea that you were standing from! I'm seriously more upset than I thought or like you still legless! Please accept my apologies
Cambo Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Cambo where did I get the idea that you were standing from! I'm seriously more upset than I thought or like you still legless! Please accept my apologies No worries flam I've been suffering from delirium myself ever since those shocking results came in I think I'll have to go out tonight & get properly legless to cure it?! Not sure why you though I was standing?… although I was contemplate it @ one point last year…maybe next time?
dippyhippy Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Posted May 9, 2015 Oh thanks, Ubique, for those kind words..... they mean a lot. I don't know about "untiring energy" though, last night I was only good for a trip to the knackers yard! Bit more with it again today!
Amanda Martin Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Hope your hangover's better, Dippy. We're going to need all the sobriety we can get.
dippyhippy Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Posted May 9, 2015 It took quite a while, Amanda...... but I have finally got a grip! Ah. The healing power of black coffee and a roll up!
dazza333 Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 I'm thinking this and I've switched off that filter in my head that stops me saying something that I know is going to provoke a strong reaction but I feel I have to say it and be dammed! IOC/ Indies you knew it was a risk to stand against an independent/ IOC candidate but you did it anyway! No amount of backtracking will alter that fact. Sorry to one an all but if I had been an IOC candidate or an Independent standing in my Ward I would have stood down rather than run the risk of splitting the vote! When I hear stories commending each other on what a good Councillor the Independent/ IOC candidate would have made from the IOC / Independent to each other I'm afraid it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and I have the urge to scream! Mikefitz, Cambo and Dazza one of you should have stood down in your Wards particularly as none of you is saying they would have done any better than their IOC/ independent opponent. I'm sorry but I have to be brutal and say that IOC still haven't got their Act together and until they do they have no chance of achieving their goal! If IOC are true to their ethos I'm concerned why the greater good didn't win through over party politics. Analysis clearly shows that the vote was split and if it hadn't been we would be looking at a whole different scenario! I await the inevitable lambasting! Hi flamboyant, I agree totally with the theme of your post, however, with Credenhill I had ulterior motives for standing against Matthews. Firstly it was a show of strength for the imagination station nursery which the PC with allegedly Matthews acknowledgement has issued them with 2 notices to quit. Secondly it was to advertise IOC to the Credenhill ward in anticipation of a Matthew's retirement, who knows. And in hindsight we came second albeit by 1 vote to a known Tory with 430 votes to Julia Blackshaws 429 (not 449 as reported by Hereford Times). This was all done on the space of 4 weeks from my deciding to stand to election day, so to me and IOC, this was a very successful day. My 430 votes was the largest opposition vote polled against Matthews in 30 years and I got that in 4 weeks, imagine if I was given 4 months?
dazza333 Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 PS I got that vote with no canvassing or leafleting help from IOC, I did that alone.
dippyhippy Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Posted May 9, 2015 There seems to be quite a lot of anecdotal evidence that folks were told to put two crosses on a ballot paper in both Widemarsh and Newton Farm wards. Is this going to be challenged?? A lot could ride on the results for these wards??
dippyhippy Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Posted May 9, 2015 Dazza....you won't be a lone ranger next time..... you will have a queue of folks wanting to help, and I'll be at the front of it. I've forgotten my manners again.... how rude....... welcome to Hereford Voice, The Sacrificial Ham, it's great to have you here.
twowheelsgood Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Going back to Saxon gate for a moment, here is the Declaration. It shows 26 spoilt votes, and doesn't define how (unusual). How then was it subsequently found that 400 or so votes were spoiled by voting for more than one candidate (allegedly on the advice of one of the polling clerks)? Further, looking at some of the other Declarations, many have 20-40 spoilt votes marked for '(a) Want of Official Mark'. How can this be? Can people be smuggling in dodgy ballot papers in such quantities over a wide area? Really? Or is it the polling clerks messing up the 'official mark'? With several IOC candidates missing out by just a few votes, this does seem odd to me.
Cambo Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Hi flamboyant, I agree totally with the theme of your post, however, with Credenhill I had ulterior motives for standing against Matthews. Firstly it was a show of strength for the imagination station nursery which the PC with allegedly Matthews acknowledgement has issued them with 2 notices to quit. Secondly it was to advertise IOC to the Credenhill ward in anticipation of a Matthew's retirement, who knows. And in hindsight we came second albeit by 1 vote to a known Tory with 430 votes to Julia Blackshaws 429 (not 449 as reported by Hereford Times). This was all done on the space of 4 weeks from my deciding to stand to election day, so to me and IOC, this was a very successful day. My 430 votes was the largest opposition vote polled against Matthews in 30 years and I got that in 4 weeks, imagine if I was given 4 months? It's a shame dazza you only decided to run 4 weeks ago? as yes if you'd of started 4 months ago you'd of romped home but it was a mighty effort given that you only had 4 weeks.
M185 Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 Morning Dazza. Your post raised some interesting points..... and no, you don't sound like a bad loser! In my humble opinion, folks like the familiar, a familiar name is a name they think they can trust. It's wrong, but this is what people think. It really is all about raising your profile, becoming known as not just Darrell who works hard for the community, but Darrell who works hard for the community AND represents IOC. In short, blowing your own trumpet a bit, whilst waving an IOC flag! Folks HAVE to make that connection...... so that when they see it written on their ballot paper, they are reassured that they "know" this person, and are confident to put a cross in the box. Please stand again. You have so much to offer. Don't give up Dazza, IOC won in my area and I suspect this was because people were won over by firework displays, fun days and fun runs! I'm not knocking that at all, it evidently raised profiles amongst people who are not necessarily political beasts and made the candidates memorable to the voting public - hopefully voters will now take time to look into the political issues happening in and around Hereford. Perhaps issues arising in Herefordshire need to be a little more in people's faces since there seems to be a certain amount of apathy when it comes to politics.
Aylestone Voice Posted May 9, 2015 Report Posted May 9, 2015 I am just waiting for someone to actually come out and say that the reason the IOC did not get the most seats was by a Conservative conspiracy including instructing the staff in the polling stations and the counters to fiddle it in favour of the conservatives. The chance of there being tactical placing of candidates by IOC and the Independents is extremely unlikely in my view Both of them need to look at their choice of candidates and their policies. If the public out there, non Hereford Voice users, who may have a more open mind decide they are happier with the Conservatives than the alternatives then something must be wrong with the other parties approach. Time to move on
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