Lawful Parking?

[Colin James]

mystery sent this to me via Twitter and asks the following question.

 

mystery â€@mysterylad01  5h

5 hours ago

@HerefordVoice is this lawful parking other than on a road and zig zag white lines pelican crossing any advice pls

 

 

[Colin James]

[Roger]

It's Ross-on-Wye ... You could probably argue until the cows come home about whether the zig-zags extend to the boundary .... ie the hedge ... Have there been moans about people speeding through those lights? The speed van must be there for a reason. Obviously if the vans position pops up on here as being debatable then there is a question that requires an answer! 

[mystery]

I accept ref the speeding issues but does it mean they can break the law to get the speeders and if breaking the law are the tickets issued lawful. If you lost ure job on the issue of an unlawful ticket wouldnt u have the right to sue

[Rockfield Rodent]

Parking on the grass verge is not illegal unless the vehicle is causing an obstruction, or if it is over 7.5 tonnes. The only other instance would be if there was a local bye-law preventing such parking. The zig zags on the carriageway are irrelevant because they apply only to a vehicle that is parked on the road itself. I can't see how the vehicle is causing an obstruction.

 

If you don't want to lose your licence and job, don't exceed the speed limit.

[Roger]

I accept ref the speeding issues but does it mean they can break the law to get the speeders and if breaking the law are the tickets issued lawful. If you lost ure job on the issue of an unlawful ticket wouldnt u have the right to sue

 

I'd be tempted to tweet the situation to the HT and the Police Chief for Herefordshire .... The worst that will happen is you get ignored completely! 

[Colin James]

Parking on the grass verge is not illegal unless the vehicle is causing an obstruction, or if it is over 7.5 tonnes. The only other instance would be if there was a local bye-law preventing such parking. The zig zags on the carriageway are irrelevant because they apply only to a vehicle that is parked on the road itself. I can't see how the vehicle is causing an obstruction.

 

If you don't want to lose your licence and job, don't exceed the speed limit.

 

Obviously, but surely this could be deemed as a distraction for some drivers and being sat on a pedestrian crossing is not the best place. With regard to loosing your job and licence, believe me when I tell you that these guys will issues tickets if your 4mpg over the speed limit, which is quite easy to do especially if your following the flow of traffic. 

[mystery]

Rockfied rodent I believe you are wrong traffic regulations state an order covers from the middle of the road to the nearest boundary not just the road. Pls research and come back then I can quote the law in full to you

[Roger]

Obviously, but surely this could be deemed as a distraction for some drivers and being sat on a pedestrian crossing is not the best place. With regard to loosing your job and licence, believe me when I tell you that these guys will issues tickets if your 4mpg over the speed limit, which is quite easy to do especially if your following the flow of traffic. 

 

I think this is a classic case of whether the 'general public' are on board with the tactic of parking a speed van there. Irrespective of what lawyers say. I don't have a problem with it's position myself. I would have a problem tho if the tickets were issued at anything in the mid thirty range. In a thirty limit. I just don't think it's realistic to fine people for 35 in a 30 zone.

[mystery]

As colin has said this is supposed to be a vehicle promoting safety parks by a pelican crossing which is a hazard thus the zig zags opposite a junction right by a pavement has mounted a kerb to get on to grass verge other pictures taken not on here show grass verge damaged. With all these facts how can this be considered a safe postion. I am tempted to send pics to that solicitor who gets vip off in court seek his view and I would suggest it is illegal parking

[mystery]

Roger I spoke to the person in question in the van after taking pics and his comments 35 and over will be ticketed and I dont give a **** straight from his mouth

[Rockfield Rodent]

The Traffic Signs and General Directions 2002 quotes the following:

 

Road marking shown in diagram 1001.3: zig-zag lines—no stopping

27.—(1) In this regulation and regulation 28— “controlled area†means a length of carriageway—

 

(a) which is adjacent to a signal-controlled crossing facility and has a zig-zag line marked along each of its edges (with or without zig-zag lines also marked down its centre); and

(b) in or near which no other signs or markings have been placed except ones comprised in the combination of signs and markings indicating the presence of the facility or shown in diagram 610, 611, 612, 613, 616, 810, 1029 or 1062;

 

“local service†does not include an excursion or tour as defined by section 137(1) of the Transport Act 1985; and “vehicle†does not include a pedal bicycle not having a sidecar attached to it, whether or not additional means of propulsion by mechanical power are attached to the bicycle.

 

(2) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4) and without prejudice to regulation 28, a zig-zag line shall convey the requirement that the driver of a vehicle shall not cause any part of it to stop in the controlled area in which it is marked.

 

(3) Paragraph (2) does not prohibit the driver of a vehicle from stopping it in a controlled area—

 

(a) if the driver has stopped it for the purpose of complying with an indication given by a light signal for the control of vehicular traffic or the direction of a constable in uniform or a traffic warden;

(b) if the driver is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond his control or it is necessary for him to stop to avoid injury or damage to persons or property; or

© when the vehicle is being used for police, fire brigade or ambulance purposes.

 

(4) Paragraph (2) does not prohibit the driver of a vehicle from stopping it in a controlled area—

 

(a) for so long as may be necessary to enable the vehicle to be used for the purposes of—

 

(i) any operation involving building, demolition or excavation;

(ii) the removal of any obstruction to traffic;

(iii) the maintenance, improvement or reconstruction of a road; or

(iv) the laying, erection, alteration, repair or cleaning in or near the controlled area of any sewer or of any main, pipe or apparatus for the supply of gas, water or electricity, or of any telecommunications apparatus kept installed for the purposes of a telecommunications code system or of any other telecommunications apparatus lawfully kept installed in any position;

(b) in the provision of a local service, and the vehicle, having proceeded past the light signals to which the controlled area relates, is waiting in that area in order to take up or set down passengers; or

© if he stops the vehicle for the purpose of making a left or right turn.

 

So from what I can see, it is not entirely clear whether the controlled area includes both carriageway and adjacent verges as well. To me (a non lawyer) the wording implies the actual tarmac carriageway only - but I could indeed be wrong. I have asked some colleagues at work (who know far more than me) for their view.

 

It could be argued that the van was stopped for "police purposes".

 

Whilst speed enforcement is indeed annoying and perhaps sometimes a little bit harsh, I currently work in Cairo - a city where there is no enforcement of any traffic laws. Believe me, it is not pretty.

[SON OF GRIDKNOCKER]

What fascinates me about this incident (and well spotted Mystery) is not so much the surreptitious way in which the van is parked, as the absurd choice of name for the 'cover' company under which it masquerades: 'Safer Roads Partnership'. No doubt if you got up-close-and-personal (and before you got a mouthful of abuse from the driver), you'd probably find that that black line below the slogan says: "Delivering a safe environment for Herefordshire council taxpayers" or some other such Plough Lane weasilspeak!

[Roger]

On reflection I would agree that a van with stripes on the back is potentially a distraction as you're going to get a fair few drivers clocking what the van is, at the last moment, and paying more attention to it than bothering what is happening at those lights. The penny probably wouldn't drop tho until after the van had recorded your speed anyway.

 

For comparison purposes I'll compare that crossing with the one in Broad Street, Hereford which I think is far more dodgy. There's a loading bay on the left immediately before the zig-zags. Any HGV in there would obscure half of the zebra crossing irrespective of the zig-zag marking. On the right, on the pavement, there's a bike stand which partially obscures pedestrians crossing onto the zebra from the library direction. 

 

[mystery]

roger thank you for interest on this matter and I note your comments however whilst I take on board your comments ref broad street the BIG difference is the loading bay is BEFORE the zig zag lines, and therefore isn't contravening them, some person paid higher than you and I will ever be has determined the distance between the zig zags and pelican crossing but this speed enforcement van was parked as per TRO ON THE ZIG ZAG white lines. Therefore in my eyes offence committed no defence, but I will be interested to hear from any traffic lawyers on here.

[greenknight]

Now things might have changed however it was my understanding that Safety Camera Partnership vehicles could not choose any old spot to park up.There tends to be discussions between local council,residents and police and this can take time.

Looking at these pictures you could not really miss it yet in Pandy on the A465 they get lots of clients violating the 40mph even though it's a straight road for a good mile. If you can't see these then please watch out for the unmarked motorbike that can be seen performing a similar role sometimes as early as six in the morning as seen in Bredenbury on the A44 and the Ledbury Road out of Hereford around Bartestree where at 6.30 your guaranteed speeders inpatient with the 30mph. You get just 10% margin of error and that not much at this speed.

[Roger]

 

What does that narrow white lane by the kerb denote? 

[tommysmith]

Cycle lane I think Roger.

 

Detest these income generating vans but the law is the law. Its just so easy to exceed the limits on certain roads though.

 

There is a Facebook page which people use to log where they have seen vans/radar guns in the county - quite useful.

[Paul Jones]

Cycle lane I think Roger.

 

Detest these income generating vans but the law is the law. Its just so easy to exceed the limits on certain roads though.

 

There is a Facebook page which people use to log where they have seen vans/radar guns in the county - quite useful.

 

Yes I agree, money making vehicles grrrr