megilleland Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 I was stopped tonight in High Town by a young police officer who told me that I couldn't ride my bike at any time in this area. I told him that the TRO as I knew it stated that cycling was permitted after 4.30pm until 10.30am the next day. Has there been a new TRO banning cycling at any time through High Town.
Roger Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 I was stopped tonight in High Town by a young police officer who told me that I couldn't ride my bike at any time in this area. I told him that the TRO as I knew it stated that cycling was permitted after 4.30pm until 10.30am the next day. Has there been a new TRO banning cycling at any time through High Town. Nothing has changed. Whether I agree that 4.30 PM is an appropriate time to let loose the cycle fraternity is another matter. Same applies to everyone being able to quite happily cycle about at 10.25 AM in that area. Rules are shown on those very expensive 'variable message' electronic rotating signs.
Glenda Powell Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 I may be wrong but wasn't cycling in High Town banned when a cyclist knocked down an elderly lady last year and she died.
megilleland Posted August 28, 2015 Author Report Posted August 28, 2015 That's right Glenda, but was a Traffic Regulation Order made to bring that about and cancel the existing order. I have never seen a public notice in the press and I can't find any TRO on the Council's website. When the policeman pulled me up outside M&S, I had just passed several youths doing wheelies in front of McDonalds.
Roger Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 That's right Glenda, but was a Traffic Regulation Order made to bring that about and cancel the existing order. I have never seen a public notice in the press and I can't find any TRO on the Council's website. The cycling rules have not been changed. For anyone who doesn't know about the cycle death then here is the link. I don't think the timings for cycling are realistic re safety and I never have. I would suggest a cycle ban between 8.00 AM and 6.00 PM as a minimum. This isn't Holland where the culture is different. Stuff is being dragged in and out of High Town virtually daily (Coffee Kart?) . Starting at probably 6 AM and ending at 6 PM. Cyclists can appear out of nowhere from behind something that is a temporary structure or similar. Sometimes at speed.
megilleland Posted August 28, 2015 Author Report Posted August 28, 2015 This Hereford City Cycle map appears to explain the situation, although I thought Widemarsh Street was also an exclusion area for cyclists, but not on this map.
atm63 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 Wasn't cycling always illegal / banned or what have you in a pedestrianised area ?? I am sure it was when I was a kid ?
Roger Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 So many exemptions in the small print of High Town rules, coupled with it turning it into a pop up village at any given moment, make the whole situation a joke. Everyone knows cyclists don't give a toss in town. Anyone thinking installing 3 high tech signs as a panacea needs their brain examined.
Aylestone Voice Posted August 29, 2015 Report Posted August 29, 2015 Motorists don't give much of a toss either in my view!
megilleland Posted August 30, 2015 Author Report Posted August 30, 2015 I took this photo on my way to work. The time exemptions for cyclists has been removed (illegally?). The sign itself is incorrect according to The Highway Code. So in effect are we breaking the law or are the police just taking the law into their own hands? I know the subject is sensitive because a woman was killed here by a stupid idiot on a bike, but that shouldn't mean that other considerate cyclists should be banned because of one person's behaviour. After all people get killed on roads and motorways daily, but other motorists are not banned from using the highways after such events. p17 - No motor vehicles p36 - Riding of pedal cycles prohibited p37 - Ridden pedal cycles permitted within the zone. (The hours during which a part-time zone operates will be shown in this panel and exemptions in a lower panel)
Colin James Posted August 30, 2015 Report Posted August 30, 2015 Two questions here. 1. So you have to dismount in High Town if on a bike yes? 2. I see a lot of cyclists riding on the pavements, only this morning, I saw a cyclist on the path on the Belmont Road, is this illegal? I remember as a kid the police would always stop and tell you to walk on the path and not ride your bike.
megilleland Posted August 30, 2015 Author Report Posted August 30, 2015 Two questions here. 1. So you have to dismount in High Town if on a bike yes? 2. I see a lot of cyclists riding on the pavements, only this morning, I saw a cyclist on the path on the Belmont Road, is this illegal? I remember as a kid the police would always stop and tell you to walk on the path and not ride your bike. 1. Only if it is illegal. This is how the police see it in High Town. 2. Rules for cyclists 64 You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement. Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A 1984, sect 129
Roger Posted August 30, 2015 Report Posted August 30, 2015 I took this photo on my way to work. The time exemptions for cyclists has been removed (illegally?). Nope. The relevance is that the sign has rotated to just ban motor vehicles instead of all vehicles. This is an identical sign the other side of town which has rotated due to the time. That bans all vehicles. Including cycles.
megilleland Posted August 30, 2015 Author Report Posted August 30, 2015 This is an identical sign the other side of town which has rotated due to the time. That bans all vehicles. Including cycles. Yes, but has this been brought about legally? When was the Traffic Regulation Order confirmed?
Roger Posted August 30, 2015 Report Posted August 30, 2015 Yes, but has this been brought about legally? When was the Traffic Regulation Order confirmed? As far as I am aware the TRO has not changed recently. The HT reported about the subject on the most recent change in 2010. Personally I don't think you can call somewhere a 'Pedestrian Zone' if bicycles are allowed through it at certain times. In fact 18 hours out of 24. But that is just my opinion. There are various groups of people exempted from the TRO who are not on the sign but who wants a 6 foot long sign? What are the cycling rules in Eign Gate? I think the rules are badly thought out and confusing.
megilleland Posted August 31, 2015 Author Report Posted August 31, 2015 Traffic regulation orders A Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) is a legal order introduced by Herefordshire Council, as highway authority for the majority of the county's roads. It enables enforcement of various road regulations by the police or our own on-street parking and Civil Enforcement Officers. The Orders inform people of highway changes and the likely effects they will have. TROs are required for many different road restrictions including: Speed limits One way streets Weight restrictions On-street parking Most traffic regulation orders arise from a request from local communities and / or the police, to address specific safety, traffic congestion or quality of life issues. The legal procedure for traffic regulation orders includes: Consultation We consult with: * Local councillors * Parish councils * Chief Constable and other emergency services * Other institutions such as the Freight Transport Association, the Road Haulage Association * Local public transport operators * Local interest groups affected by the proposals, such as residents, traders and community groups. This is particularly the case in residents’ parking schemes The cabinet member for highways and transportation then reviews the proposal. Advertisement We then advertise the proposed traffic regulation order: * In the local press * On any roads that are affected * To premises likely to be affected * At a nominated council office during office hours for at least 21 days from the start of the notice the proposal We ask for views from the Chief Constable and local councillors on substantial objections and contentious issues. We then report these to the cabinet member for highways and transportation for consideration. When considering the objections, the cabinet member must decide whether to either allow the scheme to proceed as advertised, modify the scheme, or abandon it. Making the order When any standing objections have been considered, the traffic regulation order is then formally sealed. Modifications to the proposals resulting from objections could require further advertising. The whole procedure can take up to 12 months to complete and the advertising and legal fees can be substantial. So was anyone else consulted except the police, did they get any objections, and when was it advertised?
megilleland Posted August 31, 2015 Author Report Posted August 31, 2015 As far as I am aware the TRO has not changed recently. The HT reported about the subject on the most recent change in 2010. Personally I don't think you can call somewhere a 'Pedestrian Zone' if bicycles are allowed through it at certain times. In fact 18 hours out of 24. But that is just my opinion. There are various groups of people exempted from the TRO who are not on the sign but who wants a 6 foot long sign? What are the cycling rules in Eign Gate? I think the rules are badly thought out and confusing. Looks as if the same problem was occuring in Bromsgrove way back in 2007.
megilleland Posted September 1, 2015 Author Report Posted September 1, 2015 Received this response to an e-mail I sent to the council: Good day Mr Gilleland, I am part of the team at Balfour Beatty responsible for delivering TROs in Herefordshire and I can confirm that no cancellation or replacement or amendment of the August 2010 TRO that prohibits cycling between 10.30 am and 4.30 pm every day in High Town, Commercial Street and St Peters Street has come into effect. Therefore in accordance with this TRO cyclists can lawfully cycle in the area between the time periods you describe below. Further – during the period that cyclists can lawfully cycle they are permitted to do so in both directions in the St Peters St and Commercial Street one way system. I hope this information is of use to you and if you require further information or clarification I will do my best to help. Regards Graham Hornsby This has clarified the situation, maybe they should inform the local police.
Roger Posted September 1, 2015 Report Posted September 1, 2015 At 16.35 hrs yesterday I drove past that sign pictured above. It wasn't displaying that. It was displaying this:
megilleland Posted September 1, 2015 Author Report Posted September 1, 2015 So the signing is illegal.
Roger Posted September 1, 2015 Report Posted September 1, 2015 So the signing is illegal. It was when I drove past it. The signage didn't comply with the TRO. As regards to your first point the Officer who admonished you should have known the fundamental rules about town stuff. Cycle times, begging rules, street drinking or whatever - but he/she may have based his/her advice on what was on a spinning sign that may have been wrong? The Neighbourhood PC for that zone is Keith Ramone. Look on the WMP site and you will see his area. He does ride a bicycle tho .....
Amanda Martin Posted September 20, 2015 Report Posted September 20, 2015 No-one should be mowing down elderly ladies in High Town whatever the regs say but anyone who says this is a reason to ban cyclists should get a perspective check. Bikes on the pavements is a sign to make roads safer not ban bikes and there's plenty of space in High Town for both.
Glenda Powell Posted September 21, 2015 Report Posted September 21, 2015 If you read the story in the press the boy who knocked the lady down, the bike he was riding he admitted finding it in the rubbish it had many things wrong with it so it didn't pass the road safety regulations. people should not be riding or driving cars, vans in the pedestrianised area of High Town, full stop!.
megilleland Posted September 21, 2015 Author Report Posted September 21, 2015 Do not agree Glenda. Until the council get the current Traffic Regulation Order amended, which would be a negative move cyclists can ride through High Town after 4.30pm till 10.30am the next day. The police have the power to issue fixed penalty tickets to those cyclists who are cycling recklessly or stupidly through High Town outside these hours, banning everyone at all times is not the answer. The rotating boards at the entrances to High Town are displaying inaccurate and misleading information for cyclists - this needs to be corrected immediately.
Roger Posted September 21, 2015 Report Posted September 21, 2015 The rotating boards at the entrances to High Town are displaying inaccurate and misleading information for cyclists - this needs to be corrected immediately. As I alluded to the other day. It seems hit and miss as to whether they rotate at the correct time. A 16.30 rotation TRO does not mean the sign can turn at 16.25 or 16.35. Very fancy signs but someone has taken their eye off the ball with them.
Amanda Martin Posted September 26, 2015 Report Posted September 26, 2015 We're obsessed with signage in this country. It has replaced the encouragement of common sense. I'm still completely baffled by the animosity towards cyclists. No-one turns hair at the reports almost every week about people in cars killing pedestrians but just let there be one incident involving an irresponsible cyclist.
Paul Jones Posted September 26, 2015 Report Posted September 26, 2015 I will throw another issue in here. I witnessed someone on a mobility scooter running into the back of a guy outside Monsoon about a month ago. The man was rubbing his legs in pain. So it is okay to drive, in some cases quite fast using a mobility scooter as long as you are classed as 'disabled' then?
Glenda Powell Posted September 26, 2015 Report Posted September 26, 2015 I have narrowly missed on several occasions, not being knock down by people on mobility scooters in town. If they are genuinely disabled and cannot walk then that is OK but there are two speeds on mobility scooters and everyone seems to go for the top speed. There is a person in Newton Farm who is a danger to themselves and other people on their mobility scooter, they drive at speed on the pavement and very rudely tells people to get out of the way, then without looking either way rides straight into the road and continues to drive there. With all the construction traffic around the Oval development I am surprised they haven't been knock down.
Amanda Martin Posted September 26, 2015 Report Posted September 26, 2015 Well there you go: statistically Glenda is clearly a mobility scooter magnet and has been a tad unlucky because I've never narrowly missed being mown down by a mobility scooter ever. However, I did discover this morning that you don't even need to be riding your bike to be abused in High Town - just pushing it is enough. On the logic that we're going to ban every activity that ever results in an accident, there should be no traffic anywhere.
Paul Jones Posted September 26, 2015 Report Posted September 26, 2015 Well there you go: statistically Glenda is clearly a mobility scooter magnet and has been a tad unlucky because I've never narrowly missed being mown down by a mobility scooter ever. However, I did discover this morning that you don't even need to be riding your bike to be abused in High Town - just pushing it is enough. On the logic that we're going to ban every activity that ever results in an accident, there should be no traffic anywhere. My point was if it is okay for mobility scooters in town then why not bikes?
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