Corbyn's women only train carriages

[Victor Wright]

What are your thoughts on Jeremy Corbyn's idea of women only train carriages? Personally, in this day and age, we shouldn't be even considering the idea of segregated train travel in my opinion, is the man crackers? 

[greenknight]

Well it's an interesting one Victor because we had this discussion at home last night and concluded that during the day it would be a no and probably not feasible however after a certain hour in the evening it may not be such a bad idea.

[Glenda Powell]

coming back from London to Hereford on a late train I had a man follow me from carriage to carriage as I tried to get away from him. Lucky for me when I got to the last carriage John Chadd was there and I went up to speak/sit with him, when the man saw us speaking he turned around and left the carriage, don't know what I would of done if John wasn't there as I had nowhere else to go. No ticket man was on the train for me to speak to. So yes I am 100% behind having carriages just for women.

[ragwert]

Seriously Victor,your a bloke.
I'm sure the 1,400+ women who were assaulted would agree and also the many others who don't report it.
If women feel that they would be safer travelling in a women only carriage then why not.

[Pete Boggs]

I'm not a fan of Corbyn and he's taken plenty of flak for this, but...as Glenda's post amply demonstrates there are a lot of strange blokes about. Ragwert's quoted stats are both frightening and shameful. Possibly we have to be realistic though and accept that society and the legal system isn't going to deal with these people properly (I see the Colwall flasher got bail).  If Corbyn's proposal keeps people safe then I guess I'm in favour.

[Mick]

Women-only carriages? Are we in Saudi Arabia? What next? Blacks-only....to avoid racial harassment? Corbyn is a dinosaur!

[Alex]

Yes. And for good measure, maybe they could wear some sort of special clothing to disguise the fact they are women? A black veil or a something...

[Paul Jones]

This type of segregation will be very popular with certain sections of our vibrantly enriched multicultural nirvana. The creeping conversion of our nation continues apace...

[greenknight]

Everyone should be able to travel without fear of physical or verbal attack. But segregation is admission of defeat, this is not a sustainable solution. Women only train carriages are a 19th century answer to a 21st century problem. Segregation lets perpetrators off the hook & blames victims.

True Rebecca but there are times that I think we have reverted back to a time far earlier than "Ripper Street" days. I know they are only music videos but the majority of those shown on MTV these days have 'the tune itself,scantily clad good looking girls and men with their tops off!

 

In getting their video across they cross many a line in relation to attitudes and expectation the messages of which can be misinterpreted by many.

 

Around our city urban rail or bus networks it would not even be an option for a woman travelling on her own late at night....you would seek alternative arrangements.

[greenknight]

What are your thoughts on Jeremy Corbyn's idea of women only train carriages? Personally, in this day and age, we shouldn't be even considering the idea of segregated train travel in my opinion, is the man crackers?

 

Actually Victor you can tell he,s old school Labour because if he was a Blairite he would have used "spin".

The statement would have been worded around the creation of enhanced safe zones on train carriages which is perhaps more palatable.

[Mick]

True Rebecca but there are times that I think we have reverted back to a time far earlier than "Ripper Street" days. I know they are only music videos but the majority of those shown on MTV these days have 'the tune itself,scantily clad good looking girls and men with their tops off!

 

In getting their video across they cross many a line in relation to attitudes and expectation the messages of which can be misinterpreted by many.

 

Around our city urban rail or bus networks it would not even be an option for a woman travelling on her own late at night....you would seek alternative arrangements.

 

I can't believe you just wrote that tbh. The next step after separate carriages is 'Hey let's all suggest the women cover themselves up from head to toe so the poor men who can't control their behaviour can get through their day without getting arrested!

[greenknight]

Hi Mick

Sadly I will stand by it...It's an observation my observation and the great thing about this site is that it can be said. There are some men in our society who feel that they can do whatever they like and to whom. They are not afraid of the system or the Police because policing these days is very much a virtual one.

I would only hope that my daughter would be sensible enough to avoid putting herself in a position of danger. Today sadly if she were to get on a train on her own from Birmingham in the late hours she would be doing just that. It's not right she should have the freedom to dress and go wherever,whenever she likes.

The law says she can however the realities of life are very different.

[Mick]

I just read this article:

 

This is the standard argument presented, more even by women than by men, in the Arab world, where strict patriarchal traditions continue to hold female victims responsible for crimes against them by men. If a woman is sexually harassed, then she must have been dressed provocatively. If raped, she somehow must have put herself in a compromising position. If pregnant out of wedlock, her conduct is to blame. And if she is murdered, then she must have committed an even more abhorrent crime.

[greenknight]

Perhaps I used MTV as a bad analogy because I'm not making reference to what a woman wears however marketing companies in retail and music are very quick to sell a product to men or women with good looking people being part of the presentation.

You yourself Rebecca made a comment recently about being refused a taxi and having to walk home instead. This concerned you did it not because you were a single female on there own....I never considered for a moment what you were wearing?

[H.Wilson]

Additional security guards for everybody, not just women on trains, especially at night.

[megilleland]

Reminds me of the New York Guardian Angels set up in the 1980s to patrol the subway which was quite seedy and dangerous. They are still going today, but in different  form across the States. A bit different to street pastors as seen in Hereford.

[gdj]

A few points on the original question:

 

- It wasn't Corbyn's idea - he was asked if he would consider it as a way of making women feel safer on public transport and he said that he would be open to consulting and talking to women about the idea.  As a male, I have no right to argue against it, 

 

- It is good that a politican is able to acknowledge that there is a problem, that women do often feel threatened and vulnerable (for good reason) and to be ready to consider and consult on measures that might improve it.

 

- I think that there is a world of difference between giving women a place where they may feel safer, and an oppressive segregation imposed and enforced by men - and it is the former that is being suggested.  To start likening it to enforced segregation in strict religious communities is nonsense.

[Bill Thomas]

Everyone should be able to travel without fear of physical or verbal attack. But segregation is admission of defeat, this is not a sustainable solution. Women only train carriages are a 19th century answer to a 21st century problem. Segregation lets perpetrators off the hook & blames victims.

 

Totally correct, they should address the security here by having security guards on trains not placing women in a separate compartment.

[KeefyboyB]

I think the questions here is whether rail passengers, regardless of gender, race, status etc are able to travel in safety, more importantly feeling safe. Our rail companies have a duty to ensure the safety of all rail passengers. When I was travelling regularly to Lancashire some years back I wrote to Arriva asking why the train I went out on only had 2 carriages and we were packed in like sardines whilst when I returned on a Sunday the train was 5 carriages long with only a handful of people on board. They wrote back (and I quote) "our responsibility id passenger safety NOT passenger comfort . . . charming!

 

Clearly Glenda's experience highlights that safety on trains is not a priority and I am sure her experience is not an isolated one. But I do agree that safety should not mean segregation. Young unaccompanied males, males with learning disabilities, the disabled (I could go on) everyone should be able to travel in safety.

[gdj]

Totally correct, they should address the security here by having security guards on trains not placing women in a separate compartment.

 

..and that is one of the areas that would undoubtedly be raised in a proper consultation - and it is consultation that is being suggested (with women only carriages also being part of that consultation).  

 

And I don't think anyone is suggesting `placing' women in a separate compartment - just giving women the option if they want to take it.  

[Rockfield Rodent]

They have women-only carriages on the Cairo Metro. Nothing to do with public safety and everything to do with the attitude to women in that part of the world. In the UK we need to concentrate on making public transport safer for all.

[Glenda Powell]

I should never have experience what I went through, I had gone to the Ideal Home exerbition by National bus company, and the bus failed to come and collect me, having waited alone on the roadside in London and it was getting dark for over an hour I saw a police officer and he took me into kensington road police station, I had to call my Brother who paid for my rail ticket to the police station before they would take me to Paddington, where they spoke to the train driver and staff on the train to say what had happened, therefore I already felt nervious, the train left around 9pm because it drew into Hereford at midnight.At no time during the journey did any train staff came to speak to me on the journey home. I did not draw attention to myself in regard to my dress as I was dressed in jeans and top. Then to have the frightening experience on the train was not pleasent. A member of my family was waiting at Hereford to take me home as my brother had rang them. A few months later I was attacked on Belmont road at 9.45pm after going to a city council meeting. This happened a couple of years ago.

[Pete Boggs]

Totally correct, they should address the security here by having security guards on trains not placing women in a separate compartment.

That would be the ideal solution - I suppose transport companies don't want to pay for it though.

[Colin James]

That would be the ideal solution - I suppose transport companies don't want to pay for it though.

 

But they have a duty in care that they should be addressing too.

[Roger]

Corbyn wasn't proposing this a Policy but was suggesting that it was a subject that needed to be talked about. I don't agree with women only carriages in principle but it would never work in practice anyway. The 12.40 London Midland train that's just left Hereford for Birmingham is a 2 carriage 'Pacer' train. Half reserved for women only? Never going to happen is it. Similarly with loads of 2 car Arriva trains.

 

I was sat on an 11 coach Virgin pendolino at Liverpool Lime Street Station on Saturday evening which is one of the longer trains around. I think there were 3 Virgin staff on it. The driver, train manager, and someone serving in the buffet car. Not even a ticket checker as the checks are done on the barrier exit at Euston. I never saw the train manager. I heard him though. On the tannoy. He said the train was full and if people didn't shuffle around more evenly in the carriages he would weigh the coaches and start ejecting people. First Class was then declassified so I went in there. If the situation had been complicated even further with a women only section I think the train would still be sat at the platform now! 

 

First Great Western staff are striking as we speak about their new electric trains which they perceive will lead to job losses. FGW say jobs won't go but I can't see them bringing in extra train security staff at all. The way it's going is that they are trying to operate trains with as few staff on board as possible.

 

[dippyhippy]

There have been some, quite frankly, ridiculous comments made on this thread.

 

Rebecca, if we were to follow your argument, there would be no need for CCTV on the GWW.....because we all SHOULD be able to walk it safely at any time of the day or night. Nobody would have to lock their door, because we SHOULD be able to leave it open.

 

There are lots of things we SHOULD be able to do. But we can't. The suggestion of looking at this as an OPTION, is very sensible in my opinion.

 

I hope Jeremy Corbin is announced the winner of the vote for leadership, on Saturday, and brings back some credibility and humanity to the Labour Party, I was once so proud to be a member of.

[Roger]

I hope Jeremy Corbin is announced the winner of the vote for leadership, on Saturday, and brings back some credibility and humanity to the Labour Party, 

 

Membership want him in but virtually all existing MP's don't want him elected. I think the Labour Party will tear itself apart if he gets in!