HC FARMS

[Denise Lloyd]

Whilst nobody is replying to this they are no doubt viewing it so I will continue talking to myself I don't mind.

 

Chris I said I would think about what you have said well now the decision has been taken out of your hands.  There are many comments on HT for the 3 reports on this topic and one by Liz Harvey particularily caught my eye.  Here is an exerpt -

 

The funds generated by selling these farms will not go on services, Mr Dig. That’s because they are deemed to be what’s termed ‘capital receipts’ – which are not allowed to be spent on ‘revenue projects’ - what day-to-day service delivery is classed as being.

 

So the revenue from the sale of the century will not go towards places like No 1 Ledbury Road.  You like me and many others believed that this money could go towards this very worthy cause.  Harry Bramer has said that this money will go towards financing infrastructure projects which I take to mean the much objected to SLR.    

 

I just hope that you as a member of the opposition will express your views to the Council.

 

Many people (and sadly not enough) voted IOC Libs and Indies for a reason.  I appreciate that the Council can be likened to a venominous snake pit but ..........

[dippyhippy]

You're not talking to yourself, Denise!

 

I'm glad you've been following the very interesting discussions regarding this issue over at HT.

 

I too thought Cllr Liz Harveys comment was extremely interesting. I see many over laps between the selling off of all small holdings, and the proposed SLR route.

 

The two seem to be entwined.

 

Check your messages!

 

Take care.

 

(And Cllr Chappell, if you're unsure of what the money from any sale would go towards - or not, as may be the case - I think now would be a good time to start seeking clarification. People are being given.... how shall I put this....mis information.)

[Denise Lloyd]

Dippy yahoooooooooooooooooooooooooo you've come back

[dippyhippy]

Only briefly, to tell you to keep your chin up!

 

Sterling work, on a very important issue.

 

A "Well Done" sticker for you, my friend!

[dippyhippy]

Also might be worth popping a link up to the three current news stories on HT whilst they're still on the page.

 

There's some interesting stuff on there.... Liz Harvey's comments being one of them. (I do like her!)

 

Also, a brilliant letter from Jean, on the letters page. Re declaring an interest.

 

Apologies.... but I've never been able to do the handy link thing!

[Denise Lloyd]

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/14117588.Cabinet_will_be_asked_to_agree_to_sell_all_its_county_farms_today/

http://http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/14125339.Online_poll__Do_you_agree_with_decision_to_sell_off_county_farms_//news/14125371.Herefordshire_Council_s_cabinet_approves_sale_of_all_county_farms/http://www.herefor

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/letters/14118645.I_had_to_declare_my_personal_interest_in__Southern_Link_Road__so_should_Herefordshire_Council/ 

 

I think these links work and last but definitely not least is Jean's letter

 

I HAVE direct experience of dealing with Herefordshire Council over the proposed Southern Link Road. It is planned to go through my garden, destroying three significant veteran trees.

As a Clehonger parish councillor, I have to excuse myself from discussions about this road because of my material interest.

When the route was proposed with the Clehonger link, I had to argue with the council to establish my land ownership. This was very distressing and avoidable, had the council’s agents looked at the relevant Land Registry documents.

 

I do not understand why the council has to include this ‘Clehonger link’ when it does not form part of the national government’s funding offer. Has the council declared its interest in this proposed road which will go across their farm holdings?

Will councillors excuse themselves from discussing it, as I have had to do? This planning application is too big, and too controversial, for the planning committee to determine. There needs to be an independent judgement.

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No doubt developers and estate agents are rubbing their hands at the prospect of housing along the route, but the council should not be joining them without being called to account.

 

JEAN HARRIS Pykeways, Allensmore

 

[Denise Lloyd]

Here for Hereford â€@HereforHereford  37m37 minutes ago

RT @tenantfarmers Herefordshire County farms debate. Some excellent points raised by the non-cabinet members https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1_wRGdjq2x4 â€¦

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The tenants through their sheer hard work have made these farms what they are today.  With modern technology they have turned the grass fields into highly productive pastures producing some of the finest animals in the county.  Many of these tenants get up do their farm work and then go off and do a day's work off site to come back and do their evenings feeding of animals

 

The Council will never have better caretakers.

[Pete Boggs]

I see some of the no 1 Ledbury Road parents are considering a judicial review. I'm wondering if the farms decision could be examined in a similar way. There's certainly the appearance of procedural impropriety in the way things were decided. After all  this is a Council whose default mode is to ignore or subvert the proper processes.

[dippyhippy]

Cllr Graham Powell - cabinet member - has been posting on The Fastershire thread on HT.

 

In response to the question I posed, asking him to explain the rationale behind cabinets decision to sell off all of the farms, he replied...

 

"I feel it best to simply remind everyone, that we have made a commitment to develop a disposal plan, and to treat that process and the tenants with our duty of care in mind." 

 

I've asked him a few more direct questions relating to this.... still awaiting a further response!

[Pete Boggs]

 

I've asked him a few more direct questions relating to this.... still awaiting a further response!

I think you might be waiting a while Dippy.

[dippyhippy]

Hello Pete!

 

I'm a very patient individual..... and can be annoyingly persistent.

 

Some say I'm like a dog with a bone.....!

[Chris Chappell]

If you read the T & G report on No 1 Ledbury Road, you will see that we recommend it is transferred from being a Children's Hospital to being a social services building and therefore money from the farms can be transferred to up date, secure, licences etc the building. A capital receipt!

 

The problem with the small holdings is which ever way it goes, any tenet with a lease over 15 years should be out as these farms are there to introduce young people into farming, give an opportunity to get started then to move on for the next tenant.

 

A different argument I know, but the farms and their management have been run extraordinarily badly. Why are there life tenancies, that was not the purpose? Why should young people be prevented from having a small holding, which were set up for short term tenancies, when some tenants have been given long leases and prevented young people getting the chance to come into farming?

 

Then there is the problem that in a recent consultation, where the public had at the top of their list of council savings, the sale of its small holdings! Are the public wrong? Should the council take no notice of the public? Should we not get £48m from the sale of small holdings and see if it is possible to use the money for the betterment of the people of Herefordshire?

[dippyhippy]

What percentage of "the public" even completed the recent consultation?

 

Difficult to argue the point that this badly worded, and at points misleading, paper shuffling exercise, is representative of the majority of residents, when so few bothered to fill it in!

 

I'm not at all sure that based on the results of this, the council have a mandate for selling them off, particularly when Overview and Scrutiny have advised against a complete disposal of the small holdings.

 

I for one, do not support the sale of these farms. If it goes ahead, I want to know without a shadow of doubt, WHERE this money is being allocated.

 

I honestly feel that at the heart of this issue, is the fact that two of the farms are situated in the path of the proposed SLR.

 

(And given the complete disregard the cabinet have for The Overview and Scrutiny Committee's recommendations, I don't hold out much hope of them listening to the Task and Finish report recommendations!) 

[Denise Lloyd]

The tenants should not be penalised for the fact that the farms have been very badly managed - who was responsible for managing these farms? 

 

Was there never any accountability?

 

Unless a figure has already been agreed where does this £48 million come into the equation is this a valuation by Fisher German?

 

Were the Council or the tenants getting the Single Farm Payment each year? 

 

I think many people who completed the questionnaire also included a proviso was this published?

[Denise Lloyd]

Included in the Council are several lifetime tenancies are these farms included as well in the sale?

 

I have heard of 2 possible purchasers and I can only imagine one of which has done more than muttered and possibly already made an offer.  This kind of money isn't spent unless the purchaser feels very confident that they can make it a profitable project.  Why have the Council failed to make money out this?

[dippyhippy]

Given that in the latest HT report on this, it states that money raised from the sale of the farms will be spent on "Key infrastructure projects", I'm guessing they have already decided where to allocate the ill gotten gains, should this go through.

 

And it won't be Ledbury Road.

[Denise Lloyd]

Todays Western Daily Press.  Don't think this little problem is going to go away

 

Many councils now believe the low rate of turnover of tenancies means they are failing to meet the aspirations of young prospective farmers.

Small acreages have also proved impractical. Dorset County Council amalgamated some farms, and sold off redundant high value farm houses and now its estate makes a £500,000 profit. But George Dunn, chief executive of the Tenant Farmers Association said: " The only way we could change the decision would be by Judicial Review. We have to take advice on whether that is appropriate or reasonable.

"It's appalling the way in which the council's governance is set up, with a small group taking decisions.

"Many have said they have not been able to influence the decision and some county councillors are talking about tabling changes to the constitution."

Read more: http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/Council-decides-sell-farms/story-28308594-detail/story.html#ixzz3tddfMJmf 
Follow us: @WesternDaily on Twitter | WesternDaily on Facebook

[Denise Lloyd]

So Fisher German are acting as advisor and agent  win win situation for them

 

P152837/CD3 - Herefordshire Council

https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/planning.../details?...

•  

Applicant address, Herefordshire County Council C/O Fisher German. Publicity date, Wednesday 30 September 2015. Comments by, Wednesday 21 October ...

 

So advise to sell and then act as the agent and do all work on the planning application.  Is there nobody suitable in Hereford to do the work?  

[twowheelsgood]

This application was prepared and submitted three months before the decision to sell - was it a done deal perhaps? Yes, there are many agents in the County more than capable of doing this work - whether they want to work for the Council is another matter!

[Denise Lloyd]

One of the reasons for voting for the sale of council farms was the cost of maintenance outweighed the money made in rent.

 

Yet the Veddoes was up for rent earlier this year under a full repairable lease so where would the maintenance be?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0ahUKEwjQ_J36lM3JAhUEYg8KHYkbChkQFghLMAc&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fstaffordshirecountyfarms%2Fposts%2F938962976114362&authuser=1&usg=AFQjCNGRXCWate0EbeTGsWcTKwz14Pig3A&sig2=wXIdE15kSvYZhNYxq-CSJg

[Denise Lloyd]

Well done Jessica Phillips of the HT.  This forum is getting a lot of interest and I suspect a great deal of it is out of county.

 

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/14133701.Cabinet_members_accused_of__trashing_local_democracy__following_decision_on_smallholdings/

 

And well done to the Councillors who are prepared to stand up and be counted on this

[Glenda Powell]

Denise, there is a very good response to this story from Cllr Bob Matthews the Leader of the Independent group that should be in the HT this week, if they print it. If the people had not given the Tories a majority vote in the May election the cabinet system would have gone.Last year at a full council meeting the opposition members of the council voted the cabinet system out, with a majority vote, but it could not be implemented until after the May elections. Unfortunately the Tories became the larges party on the council and decided to keep the cabinet system.

[Denise Lloyd]

Then the cabinet was hand picked disgraceful of course they are all going to stick together they're all cons.  I looking forward to reading the HT tomorrow.

[Paul Neades]

Ironic that all the conservative farmers came out In Force to vote in May, they now are reaping what they have sowed.

[Denise Lloyd]

Smart a.... comments like that won't win you or your party any votes.  Good job your leader and some of your fellow councillors have conducted themselves in a more sophiscated manner

[Denise Lloyd]

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/letters/14136993.Scrap_cabinet_system_in_name_of_openness_on_Herefordshire_Council/

 

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/letters/14136964.Decision_to_sell_off_council_farms_is_deplorable/

 

 

 

2 of the 3 letters in the HT today when the other comes up I will link it.  All 3 are excellent also the report in the HT 

 

Does this mean that if the mood suits the Cabinet could approve say the SLR?

[Denise Lloyd]

Bibliophile â€@savelibservices  21 mins21 minutes ago

"The meeting opened my eyes to what goes on in local government." #Herefordshire #Tenantfarmers http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/letters/14137010.County_smallholdings_sell_off__Report_paid_for_but_never_seen/ â€¦

[Denise Lloyd]

Here is the background history of Council farms which I found in an edition of Dorset life

 

Council land-owning in Dorset dates back over a century to 1911, when a farm was purchased near Marnhull in a bid to stem the exodus of people leaving the countryside to seek their fortunes in the city, but it was after the Great War that the need for council-owned farms grew in importance. In 1918, the British Army stood at almost four million under arms; David Lloyd George promised that the soldiery, after four years of hard fighting at terrible cost, would return to ‘a land fit for heroes’. Within a year of the Armistice, the military had been reduced to 900,000 and the government had a duty of care to find work for the significant number of now unemployed and, at times, vocally discontent former soldiers who had served their country with pride. The fear was that if these men weren’t cared for, Bolshevism and riots might break out on the streets as it had in Russia.

 

 

and also a very extensive report produced by Gloucestershire County Council   http://www.tisonline.net/ContentUploads/CaseUploads/Update_June_2008_1662008101955.doc

[Denise Lloyd]

One more if you haven't got a Sunday paper to read!

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=52&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi019j25tjJAhXLuhQKHRwsAe44MhAWCCMwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bahs.org.uk%2FAGHR%2FARTICLES%2F54n2a7.pdf&authuser=1&usg=AFQjCNH5NV1ocj1g0AKVzoAlIBgX1XTKZA&sig2=FSXcKTovAY4jut4jOECvxQ

 

I would imagine if somebody searched through the history of Hereford's council farms there is at least one that was bequeathed - might be totally incorrect

[megilleland]

Everything is up for sale.

From Conservative Home

 

Then there is Herefordshire County Council whose asset register includes such plums as industrial land and several sites encouragingly described as "future investment land." Endless industrial units, workshops, shopping centres, shops. So many farms I lost count after about 70. All under the dead hand of state ownership. Is this Herefordshire or the old Soviet Union.

 

They own a caravan site. There is also a golf course. Does this Conservative council really believe that golf courses should be part of the public sector?

 

This is a Conservative, a Conservative council, which has debt of £146 million and is paying over £8 million a year in interest. Last year it raised £88 million in Council Tax but has decided there is no alternative to increasing it by 1.9%. Is it really not possible for them to reduce their debt and thus their interest bill which is such a major item of their spending? Is their asset management truly rigorous? I gently suggest they could try harder.

Herefordshire Council asset management and property services

 

As a unitary authority, Herefordshire Council has an interest in hundreds of properties and thousands of pieces of land.

 

We own or lease properties mainly to provide services or to obtain a financial return.

 

Asset management and property services is part of the corporate services directorate and we are responsible for all aspects of property management for the council's property portfolio.

 

The primary strategic roles of our property assets are:

 

To facilitate the provision and improvement of services provided by the council and other partner organisations as a contribution towards achieving the vision of the Herefordshire Plan and Corporate Plan

 

To generate an acceptable financial return for the authority, in terms of revenue income, cost reductions or improving efficiency

 

To assist community development and demonstrate good environmental management 

 

Buchanan Trust Estate

 

The Buchanan Trust (originally called the Bosbury Trust) was created after the First World War by Robert Buchanan, in memory of his eldest son, Alan, who died in Belgium in 1915. The objective of this charitable Trust is to assist ex-servicemen become settled in agriculture. However, since the Local County Council – Hereford took over the Trusteeship of the Charity in 1972 – very few ex-servicemen have been permitted to benefit.

 

Despite John being a fully qualified beneficiary of the Trust the County Council decided at some point around 2005 to remove John from his farm.  This was because of his criticisms of the unfair way they were running the Charity.

 

However, John refused to go and so ended up becoming a squatter on his farm and home from July 2006 until March 2011 when the Trustee was forced by the Charities Commission to reinstate him.

 

PRESS STATEMENT re The Buchanan Trust and John Barron 

 

The Buchanan Trust website

 

1142122 - COUNTRYSIDE RESTORATION TRUST

 

This charity has farms in Herefordshire.

 

Aims: THE COUNTRYSIDE RESTORATION TRUST IS THE UK'S LEADING CHARITY PROMOTING WILDLIFE-FRIENDLY FARMING AND CAMPAIGNING FOR A LIVING, WORKING COUNTRYSIDE. THE TRUST BELIEVES THAT WILDLIFE IS INTEGRAL TO GOOD FARMING. THAT PHILOSOPHY IS PUT INTO PRACTICE ON OVER 1500 ACRES OF WORKING FARMS, SMALL HOLDINGS AND WOODLAND ACROSS THE COUNTRY.