Shame of EU wasn't it?

[Cambo]

I don't agree with you that Cameron is right to offer sanctuary only to refugees from the camps, and not those already in Europe. He bewails the shortage of skilled workers and medical staff, yet refuses entry to Syria’s most youthful, enterprising and relatively rich expatriates -these are the ones who are affluent and educated, hence being able to pay people traffickers. Germany is ready to welcome 500,000 mostly able and qualified Syrians a year. Watch the next German renaissance. Britain’s 4,000 refugees a year are to come from Lebanese and Jordanian camps – dependants, likely to return home when the horror passes. All of this to the detriment of Syria ultimately, of course.

But do they possess the skill shortages we are in need of?

 

Medically you'd say yes but are they not needed in Syria to treat wound from the conflict or helping the sick & wounded in the camps?

 

I'm against the EU personally for a whole host of reasons but that's another thread!

 

German renaissance? Economically is the world let alone the EU out of recession?…Just last week the markets had a big crash with china constantly suspending trading on its share markets.

 

One of the reasons for the rise of the National German Workers Party was the depression in the late 1920's early 30's when the world stock markets crash, happened…the USA recalled its debt from Germany causing hyperinflation resulting in mass unemployment…step forward herr Hitler who breeding,playing on the peoples fears, blaming,demonising & installing distrust on the Jews (also the treaty of Versailles was used by them too because they believed it to be grossly unfair) took advantage of the situation raising his party to power.

 

I'm not saying this is going to happen but if we are not careful it could!

 

Sometimes we need to think with our heads & not our hearts we need to be able to help but we need to be logical because from what you posted earlier about funding for refugees the government don't think the Syria war is going to end anytime soon? possibly in the next 5 years?

[Osmosis]

But do they possess the skill shortages we are in need of?

 

Medically you'd say yes but are they not needed in Syria to treat wound from the conflict or helping the sick & wounded in the camps?

 

I'm against the EU personally for a whole host of reasons but that's another thread!

 

German renaissance? Economically is the world let alone the EU out of recession?…Just last week the markets had a big crash with china constantly suspending trading on its share markets.

 

One of the reasons for the rise of the National German Workers Party was the depression in the late 1920's early 30's when the world stock markets crash, happened…the USA recalled its debt from Germany causing hyperinflation resulting in mass unemployment…step forward herr Hitler who breeding,playing on the peoples fears, blaming,demonising & installing distrust on the Jews (also the treaty of Versailles was used by them too because they believed it to be grossly unfair) took advantage of the situation raising his party to power.

 

I'm not saying this is going to happen but if we are not careful it could!

 

Sometimes we need to think with our heads & not our hearts we need to be able to help but we need to be logical because from what you posted earlier about funding for refugees the government don't think the Syria war is going to end anytime soon? possibly in the next 5 years?

Germany has effectively cherry-picked the most able, professional, skilled and affluent of the Syrian exodus. They (the Germans) have a declining birth rate which was a genuine concern. All these people, mostly young and of working age as has already been mentioned, will contribute towards a new economy for Germany. This type of refugee/migrant whatever you want to call them, requires less support from the host nation after a very short time, if they are allowed to work and contribute. They will set up businesses and thrive. The people in the camps in Jordan etc that Cameron is keen to have (or rather, not keen) are more likely to require support during their time here, after which they will go home when they can, and help to rebuild their country, having been unable to contribute economically whilst here. Of course they require our help, and we will and must give it, but that is the case nevertheless. As for heads not hearts: we must accept the consequences of interfering and bombing all over the place, it's no good complaining that other countries must pull their weight - we caused this mess, directly and indirectly, and this is the result.

[Cambo]

Germany has effectively cherry-picked the most able, professional, skilled and affluent of the Syrian exodus. They (the Germans) have a declining birth rate which was a genuine concern. All these people, mostly young and of working age as has already been mentioned, will contribute towards a new economy for Germany. This type of refugee/migrant whatever you want to call them, requires less support from the host nation after a very short time, if they are allowed to work and contribute. They will set up businesses and thrive. The people in the camps in Jordan etc that Cameron is keen to have (or rather, not keen) are more likely to require support during their time here, after which they will go home when they can, and help to rebuild their country, having been unable to contribute economically whilst here. Of course they require our help, and we will and must give it, but that is the case nevertheless. As for heads not hearts: we must accept the consequences of interfering and bombing all over the place, it's no good complaining that other countries must pull their weight - we caused this mess, directly and indirectly, and this is the result.

Yes if there are enough jobs to go around? as you also have people from all over the EU especially from the eastern part competing for jobs too given as I've said economically the world is not in a great place if there is a big down turn what then?

 

To be honest I'd rather see we help the poorest also those from within the Christian & yazidis communities because they have had a very ruff time of it being targeted by Isis in particular!

 

Yes your right in so much as it was our government who have helped cause the mess in the Middle East but I did not as did so many others,agreed to the bombing in Syria also the crisis was well under way before the government voted to go bombing there & besides this started as a civil war which now has turned into a proxy war with many nations involved!

 

Don't get me wrong I think it's a great quality to have to be compassionate coupled with empathy & I'm not knocking it one bit but there are a lot of people who are not like that so you need to take into accounts there fears you can't just go dismissing or ignoring them even if you don't agree with there sentiments as there concerns are not going to go away just like that & I'd rather not see that there resentment turn into a festering wound that won't heal!

 

We need to have a realistic sensible approach in what we can do to helping these refugees in the best way possible not just for them but us also so I don't think a open door policy is the right way to achieve that because the strain on the public services might be a little bit to much as they are already struggling as it is?

[Steve Major]

In response to AP..... and others.

 

This is how I interpreted your comment, in the context of the thread.

 

However, there are some master manipulators who post on here. Folks who skew events to suit their views. Who deliberately misinterpret, take as gospel anything that is printed in The Daily Mail, and thinks Katie Hopkins speaks sense. So I bow to your greater knowledge and experience in this field...

 

Obviously if I have misconstrued the thought processes behind your post, you have my most sincere and heartfelt apologies.

 

(Evening Steve, I hope you don't mind me mentioning this.... your posts do come across in a rather aggressive manner! Have you considered meditation? It's a great way to relax, and a real stress buster.)

 

Apologies for the delay in my response dippy. I do not mind at all, I am not entirely sure how can conclude a rather aggressive manner merely from text, maybe you have the ability to use extrasensory perception (ESP) to identify information hidden from the normal senses? Joking aside, I am not aggressive at all and I apologise if my responses come across to you in that manner.

[dippyhippy]

Evening Steve!

 

I guess it's just how I read it. Perhaps aggressive was not the best choice of word.... terse, sharp, maybe??.... that said, your response above comes across in a much less confrontational manner!

 

I wasn't joking about the meditation. Honestly, once you get into it, it's brilliant! Helps with getting a good nights sleep too. A few minutes during the day leaves you re-energised.... it's fabulous!

 

I've been using it for about ten years, and I can promise you, it has some real benefits!

[dippyhippy]

I've just watched a really positive and informative report on Central News.

 

Herefordshire Council are reported as stating that we are welcoming 60 refugees. This is terrific news... and a great start. Hopefully we will be able to welcome many more.

[Ubique]

That's a start Dippy - just hope that the locals treat them as they wish to be treated , including that drunken racist yob who was in Court today ( oh ! No he wasn't , he forgot ! ) who due to his age should know better - it will be interesting to hear what Sentance he receives in two weeks time ( if he remembers to turn up) . It was very reassuring to read in the HT that it was Door Staff who went to the victims aid and I believe detained to offender .

[Osmosis]

I've just watched a really positive and informative report on Central News.

 

Herefordshire Council are reported as stating that we are welcoming 60 refugees. This is terrific news... and a great start. Hopefully we will be able to welcome many more.

Great news I agree Dippy. Some way off the 1800 refugees that were 'rumoured' to be arriving! Incidentally, there's an interesting article in the Guardian tonight about the conflicting press releases regarding the unaccompanied refugee children, and whether Cameron has agreed to host 3000 of them - read it here http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/28/a-tale-of-two-press-releases-whats-behind-the-guardian-and-mails-contrasting-refugee-stories

[dippyhippy]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting the link, Osmosis.

 

Evening Ubique, yes... I've seen that story online at HT. I've left my two pence worth...

[Roger]

Great news I agree Dippy. Some way off the 1800 refugees that were 'rumoured' to be arriving! Incidentally, there's an interesting article in the Guardian tonight about the conflicting press releases regarding the unaccompanied refugee children, and whether Cameron has agreed to host 3000 of them - read it here http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/28/a-tale-of-two-press-releases-whats-behind-the-guardian-and-mails-contrasting-refugee-stories

 

There was a Court ruling last week where the way has been paved for more people to come to the UK if they can identify 'family' members who are already here. Quite how many will use that route I don't know. Nor does anyone else probably.

 

Independent

[Steve Major]

It's unbelievable how easily folk are 'offended' these days, they offended themselves on behalf of others.

 

Definition of a refugee,  someone in fear of their life.

 

Definition of a migrant, someone  looking for a better life.

 

 

So I tend to agree with Dave on this one 

 

Mr Cameron rounded on the Labour leader in the Commons, saying:

"Look at the record of the last week. They (Labour) met with the unions and they gave them flying pickets.

They met with the Argentinians, they gave them the Falkland Islands. They met with a bunch of migrants in Calais, they said they could all come to Britain. The only people they never stand up for is the British people and hard-working taxpayers."

[Mick]

It's unbelievable how easily folk are 'offended' these days, they offended themselves on behalf of others.

 

Definition of a refugee,  someone in fear of their life.

 

Definition of a migrant, someone  looking for a better life.

 

 

So I tend to agree with Dave on this one 

 

Mr Cameron rounded on the Labour leader in the Commons, saying:

"Look at the record of the last week. They (Labour) met with the unions and they gave them flying pickets.

They met with the Argentinians, they gave them the Falkland Islands. They met with a bunch of migrants in Calais, they said they could all come to Britain. The only people they never stand up for is the British people and hard-working taxpayers."

 

The PM has nothing to apologise for in my view.

[Osmosis]

Yes it's great news isn't it Roger, at last we should see some movement on the appalling and shameful situation in Calais. Not for the first time the home office is using bureaucracy to flout the law. Regarding the numbers, even if everybody at the Calais camp were to come to the uk, we could easily accommodate those numbers. We are a wealthy country.

[Bill Thomas]

Yes it's great news isn't it Roger, at last we should see some movement on the appalling and shameful situation in Calais. Not for the first time the home office is using bureaucracy to flout the law. Regarding the numbers, even if everybody at the Calais camp were to come to the uk, we could easily accommodate those numbers. We are a wealthy country.

 

I agree with the PM that we should ONLY take genuine refugees from legitimate camps. Taking migrants from Calais will only encourage more trafficking and send out the wrong signal. 

[Alex]

I agree with the PM that we should ONLY take genuine refugees from legitimate camps. Taking migrants from Calais will only encourage more trafficking and send out the wrong signal. 

 

The PM is 100% with this policy. Corbyn has no proper strategy other than everyone in Calais can all come to Britain, frankly I find him to be a loose cannon who has not thought this through at all.

[Roger]

Yes it's great news isn't it Roger, at last we should see some movement on the appalling and shameful situation in Calais. Not for the first time the home office is using bureaucracy to flout the law. Regarding the numbers, even if everybody at the Calais camp were to come to the uk, we could easily accommodate those numbers. We are a wealthy country.

 

I disagree. We had 18 Iraq/Iranian illegals pile out of a lorry at a local fruit farm last week. [link ]They will 'settle' here whilst their asylum claims are processed. They will obviously never get sent back. Any sibling/wife/son/daughter they have at Calais (or they can get to Calais) will then be entitled to come here because of that Court ruling. They know the system and they have access to lawyers. Aid workers are already trawling the 'Jungle' to identify people who might be related to people already here. It's just going to snowball.

[Osmosis]

I agree with the PM that we should ONLY take genuine refugees from legitimate camps. Taking migrants from Calais will only encourage more trafficking and send out the wrong signal. 

Because ignoring the people at Calais has really stemmed the tide of refugees into Europe so far hasn't it.

[Bill Thomas]

Because ignoring the people at Calais has really stemmed the tide of refugees into Europe so far hasn't it.

 

Personally I believe the signals had already gone out then Angela had a brain wave..

 

So you think allowing all of these migrants from Calais into the UK is the best solution and will not encourage even more people to take the long dangerous route? I think that would only be irrisponsbile 

[Osmosis]

I disagree. We had 18 Iraq/Iranian illegals pile out of a lorry at a local fruit farm last week. [link ]They will 'settle' here whilst their asylum claims are processed. They will obviously never get sent back. Any sibling/wife/son/daughter they have at Calais (or they can get to Calais) will then be entitled to come here because of that Court ruling. They know the system and they have access to lawyers. Aid workers are already trawling the 'Jungle' to identify people who might be related to people already here. It's just going to snowball.

In fact it doesn't work like that. The families must already be settled here, and not in the process of applying for asylum themselves. I personally have no problem in anybody getting legal representation and going to court to ensure that the law is applied fairly, I just think that in this case it's pretty shameful that it's been necessary to resort to that.

[H.Wilson]

Personally I believe the signals had already gone out then Angela had a brain wave..

 

So you think allowing all of these migrants from Calais into the UK is the best solution and will not encourage even more people to take the long dangerous route? I think that would only be irrisponsbile 

I agree Bill, you have to have a system in place otherwise the situation will only get worse and yes I think it can get worse.

[H.Wilson]

The PM is 100% with this policy. Corbyn has no proper strategy other than everyone in Calais can all come to Britain, frankly I find him to be a loose cannon who has not thought this through at all.

 

Mr Corbyn is definitely a loose cannon and that is the best description I have heard this year. Now he want to give the Falklands to Argentina, what planet is he on? 

[Cambo]

Because ignoring the people at Calais has really stemmed the tide of refugees into Europe so far hasn't it.

No it's not stop the tide entering Europe because of merkle but it has stopped the tide waiting on the other side of the channel to come to the UK…like I've said before I think it makes sense to take them direct from the refugee camps from outside of Europe for two reasons…one it stops the people traffickers two they do not have to risk perilous sea crossings where there's a real chance they could ended up drowning!

 

Instead of waiting in Calais they could settle in France…perhaps there could be a system in the EU where they settle in a safe country to start & then apply to other EU states to which they'd like to go for asylum?

[Roger]

 I also think France should step up to the plate and help he people that have bee camping on their country instead of hoping somehow that will eventually all disappear into the UK.

 

Refugees shun France, land of red tape, unemployment and poor housing

 

 

 

Refugees are steering clear of France in favour of Germany, Sweden and Britain because they see the country as unwelcoming and economically depressed, migrant experts and aid groups said on Monday.

 

Red tape, unemployment rates of more than 10 per cent and a ban on working for up to nine months while asylum requests are processed are among the factors leading the vast majority of refugees to avoid France.

 

“It’s nice to visit but not to work,†said Abdulrahman, a 26-year-old Syrian living in Sweden.

 

Other reasons migrants stay away include squalid housing for all but a lucky few and difficulties with the language.

 

Telegraph

 

Migrants are not remotely interested in France. They're only there, reluctantly, as it's closer to the UK .... They've got ultra picky with where they want to go so as to better their economic chances/lifestyle ... And I doubt France will be fighting for them to stay ...

[Osmosis]

No it's not stop the tide entering Europe because of merkle but it has stopped the tide waiting on the other side of the channel to come to the UK…like I've said before I think it makes sense to take them direct from the refugee camps from outside of Europe for two reasons…one it stops the people traffickers two they do not have to risk perilous sea crossings where there's a real chance they could ended up drowning!

 

Instead of waiting in Calais they could settle in France…perhaps there could be a system in the EU where they settle in a safe country to start & then apply to other EU states to which they'd like to go for asylum?

I've already posted on here reasons why people don't want to stay in France but might want to come here, and it's not because they'll be getting generous benefits. It is the legal right of refugees to be reunited with family members already in the UK, under the European asylum rule known as the Dublin III regulation, referred to above.

[Denise Lloyd]

And these will go where?

 

Sweden and Finland plan to expel up to 100000 failed asylum

www.telegraph.co.uk › News › World News › Europe › Sweden

17 hours ago - Sweden and Finland intend to expel up to 100,000 migrants who arrived ... The vast majority of Finland's asylum seekers last year came from Iraq. ... but the number could climb to 80,000," Anders Ygeman, the interior minister ...

[Roger]

I've already posted on here reasons why people don't want to stay in France but might want to come here, and it's not because they'll be getting generous benefits. It is the legal right of refugees to be reunited with family members already in the UK, under the European asylum rule known as the Dublin III regulation, referred to above.

 

There are thousands in that squalid Calais 'Jungle' and if you read my link above then you'll see up to 200 might have some sort of 'paper' case linking them to someone already in the UK. That is probably a generous over estimation by do gooders' anyway. So why are the other 98% hovering there? Yup ... Economic reasons. So your argument is trash Osmosis. To put it bluntly.

[Cambo]

I've already posted on here reasons why people don't want to stay in France but might want to come here, and it's not because they'll be getting generous benefits. It is the legal right of refugees to be reunited with family members already in the UK, under the European asylum rule known as the Dublin III regulation, referred to above.

If they have family members already in the UK & they have a legal right to be reunited then surly they should be applying for asylum instead of living in a camp with squalid conditions trying to sneak in?…as they are already in France then doesn't France have a duty to look after them while there application is being processed?

[Roger]

Sweden and Finland intend to expel up to 100,000 migrants who arrived ... The vast majority of Finland's asylum seekers last year came from Iraq. ... but the number could climb to 80,000," Anders Ygeman, the interior minister ...

 

One refugee child costs the Swedish economy between €9800 and €22500 a month to look after ... So it ain't cheap.

 

This includes the 14 year old Saad Alsaud (pictured here last year in the grey sleeveless top ... )

 

 

Paavo Tajukangas (link will translate)

[Osmosis]

There are thousands in that squalid Calais 'Jungle' and if you read my link above then you'll see up to 200 might have some sort of 'paper' case linking them to someone already in the UK. That is probably a generous over estimation by do gooders' anyway. So why are the other 98% hovering there? Yup ... Economic reasons. So your argument is trash Osmosis. To put it bluntly.

I read your Torygraph link but couldn't see it stated anywhere that there were 200 people with a 'paper' case linking them to the UK. Can you cite an authoritative reference for that? Regarding your disparaging comment about 'do-gooders' - what is your problem with people trying to help out? Do you think it's ok to have people living in these camps in one of the wealthiest regions of the world, in the 21st century? Yes, people do want to come to the UK, and there are good economic reasons for that, as well as other reasons which might be to do with family or language. As your article points out, there's worse unemployment in France than there is here, and they are not welcome. As I've stated before, incredibly, there is more racism in France than there is here, and less integration. Many of these people are from Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Eritrea, Libya as well as Syria - conflict-affected places where very often we have meddled and destroyed functioning economies and infrastructures and then buggered off - wouldn't you be inclined to come to the UK to try and start again? What is there left for them in their own countries? War, terrorism, starvation, no schools, hospitals...I could go on.

[Roger]

I read your Torygraph link but couldn't see it stated anywhere that there were 200 people with a 'paper' case linking them to the UK. Can you cite an authoritative reference for that?

 

It wasn't the 'torygraph' ...

 

Independent

 

Campaigners from the grassroots group Citizens UK, which brought the case, now say they hope to bring the four refugees to the UK on Thursday  and are  despatching a team of lawyers to Calais to prepare the cases of up to 200 refugees who may have a case to come to Britain under the Dublin regulation.

 

The word 'paper' may not have been used but the jist was there ... The article was quoting Citizens UK as a source for that 200 figure ... 

 

Citizens UK