Less disabled people in Poland compared to the UK?

[Colin James]

Colin, Okey dokey pal. Poland and all the other former Soviet Bloc countries are wealthy, Poland isn't the largest beneficiary of EU funding, it's hot rather than cold, it's central rather than East and the several millions of young people that joined the exodus from the East to the West weren't moving for any financial reasons. In fact, let's say they never left at all.

As for the Disabled, particularly those cheating sorts who've falsely acquired a Blue Badge, lets round them up and carry out some more stringent and intrusive tests that'll establish if the lazy bastards can get about without any financial help. Whatsmore, let's follow the example of some nations, lock the mad up, tether them to a bed slam the door and let them fend for themselves.

 

Hmmm, rattle, pram...

 

I never said Poland was wealthy? It is probably more hot there than the UK during the summer months but the opposite during the winter but last winter was pretty mild.

 

You are spot on the Poland is in fact smack back in the centre or Europe, well at least it is on my map.

 

You made assumptions about my good lady as well as Irena (who I cannot speak for) and my reply was in direct response to your comments, so please do not shy away by attempting to generalise my response.

 

As for the disabled, (other than the obvious) I agree, lets bring them all in and test them, they are quite happy to keep taking the free money, cars and blue badges, so I am sure to keep this gravy train of finance coming in, they won't mind a few stringent tests, after all, if they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to be concerned about either. I also think that we should extend this to include the people who have been claiming unemployment benefits for more than 12 months and do what they do in other countries, offer them 3 jobs and if they refuse all of them stop their money, simples! We are far far to tolerant in the UK and that is why our benefits system is draining us, we need to sharpen our pencils and put all of the falsely claimed money to where it is needed the most! It needs to go to genuine disabled and vulnerable people and not to the ones who make a mockery of the system.

 

You only have to watch the terrible TV programmes like Benefits Britain to get a taste of the amount of money being thrown down the drain. You are all to quick to condemn the government when they have to make tough decisions by making cut backs, well I say lets start weeding out the scammers out there in the first instance.

[bobby47]

Irena, Germanic ancestory? Good God no! I think what your doing here is confusing the well known and easily recognisable Germanic trait of perhaps being controlling and assertive with that of being intelligent and able to make a point without sounding stupid.

There's a very British expression once delivered by some wise old sage that says, 'Don't ever argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. And so, mindful of this good advice, I won't argue with you Irena.

My warmest regards.

[dippyhippy]

Evening Colin.

 

The governments own figures show that just 0.7 % of benefit claims are fraudulent - this is a minuscule amount when you look at those companies who are dodging their tax bills.

 

A whopping £10 billion is unclaimed in benefits. The elderly, those on low incomes and carers, are prime examples of groups who do not claim, because as a society, we are stigmatising them.

 

On a separate note, I'd be interested to hear Irena's view on Polands right wing government. The senate have just voted to put the Supreme Court and judicial system under government control. This is seen by many as a step towards authoritarianism. As in, do as we say, don't question and don't think for yourself.

 

Surely this must be viewed as very much a backward step? It certainly isn't a form of democracy that I recognise.

[Colin James]

Evening Colin.

 

The governments own figures show that just 0.7 % of benefit claims are fraudulent - this is a minuscule amount when you look at those companies who are dodging their tax bills.

 

A whopping £10 billion is unclaimed in benefits. The elderly, those on low incomes and carers, are prime examples of groups who do not claim, because as a society, we are stigmatising them.

 

On a separate note, I'd be interested to hear Irena's view on Polands right wing government. The senate have just voted to put the Supreme Court and judicial system under government control. This is seen by many as a step towards authoritarianism. As in, do as we say, don't question and don't think for yourself.

 

Surely this must be viewed as very much a backward step? It certainly isn't a form of democracy that I recognise.

 

 

And of course the government know who the fraudulent ones are of course 

I had a discussion with a friend of mine who is classed as disabled, I asked him why some disabled people have brand new cars and often pay the difference for an even better model, he said oh, you think we should all have special disabled cars with disabled written all over them, so you can stigmatise us, I told him that he is happy to park in a bay with disabled written all over it! 

 

I will give you my view on Polands policies which are very popular in Poland. The Polish PM told Angela Merkel that they will not be blackmailed by the EU or forced to take Syrian refugees and to stop trying to distribute her guest around Europe. Look at the state of Germany now!! To be honest, I think every country should have TOTAL control over their own borders and that country decides who enters and who does not.

 

There are no terrorist problems in any of the V4 countries of late, funny that don't you think? 

 

In regard to the senate who have just voted to put the supreme court and judicial system under government control, my gf is not 100% sure what it is all about entirely or the full details just yet as she has been working and not really seen much of the news this week, that said, she thinks this is about making judges less untouchable and more accountable, so is probably a good thing. 

[dippyhippy]

Morning Colin,

 

These are the governments own figures. I'm pretty sure if they could get away with massaging the figure upwards - they would. It would help to perpetuate the myth that Britain is full of scrounges. Figures released in the last six months, show that at the very most , fraudulent claims cost £1.3 billion - to put that figure into context, the figure for missing corporation tax receipts, is £120 billion.

 

Estimates put the number of staff employed chasing fraudulent claims at ten times the amount chasing tax dodgers. Does that make any sense to you?

 

Programmes such as Benefits Street do nothing to help reveal the truth. Now labelled 'Poverty Porn' they seem to be fulfilling their brief of outraging those who have no interest in understanding what the true picture is like for the many who are struggling.

 

'Tar them all with the same brush' would appear to be the plan.

 

My question about the recent Senate vote is not to do with Polands refusal to take refugees - I seem to recall that has been discussed previously.....I have no wish to repeat past disagreements!

 

This is, as I said, about government having control of the Supreme Court and Judiciary System. As stated, I do not recognise this as being democratic in any way, shape or form.

 

I would be interested to hear if this is considered a backward step - which is why I directed that question specifically to Irena.

 

Have a great Sunday!

[Colin James]

Morning Colin,

 

These are the governments own figures. I'm pretty sure if they could get away with massaging the figure upwards - they would. It would help to perpetuate the myth that Britain is full of scrounges. Figures released in the last six months, show that at the very most , fraudulent claims cost £1.3 billion - to put that figure into context, the figure for missing corporation tax receipts, is £120 billion.

 

Estimates put the number of staff employed chasing fraudulent claims at ten times the amount chasing tax dodgers. Does that make any sense to you?

 

Programmes such as Benefits Street do nothing to help reveal the truth. Now labelled 'Poverty Porn' they seem to be fulfilling their brief of outraging those who have no interest in understanding what the true picture is like for the many who are struggling.

 

'Tar them all with the same brush' would appear to be the plan.

 

My question about the recent Senate vote is not to do with Polands refusal to take refugees - I seem to recall that has been discussed previously.....I have no wish to repeat past disagreements!

 

This is, as I said, about government having control of the Supreme Court and Judiciary System. As stated, I do not recognise this as being democratic in any way, shape or form.

 

I would be interested to hear if this is considered a backward step - which is why I directed that question specifically to Irena.

 

Have a great Sunday!

 

We are slightly moving away here from the original topic, however, I appreciate that you directed your question at Irena but as my gf is Polish I wanted to give you her view too, hence my response. 

[K.Butt]

Estimates put the number of staff employed chasing fraudulent claims at ten times the amount chasing tax dodgers. Does that make any sense to you?

 

So what is the answer, let them just get away with it? If we applied this same logic to the police costs involved in chasing people who have committed smaller crimes, we would just tell the police not to bother? Does that makes any sense to you? 

[dippyhippy]

Hi Colin, it all comes down to politics in the end doesn't it?

 

Here we have a Polish government, whose minister in charge of security was serving a suspended sentence for abuse of power and slander, when given his position. A Senate who are hell bent on removing any sense of impartiality or independence of its judiciary system, and who have already increased state oversight of the media.

 

I see faint echoes in this country, with legal advice now only truly available for those who can afford it, and a mostly right wing main stream media.

 

It is my view that extreme right wing narratives are becoming common place, and they do need to be countered.

 

Polish people that I work with see this government as regressive. I agree.

 

Perhaps this is going off on a tangent, but it would be foolish to think you can discuss a subject involving disability and there not to be political points to be made.

[dippyhippy]

Hi K Butt,

I would have thought the answer was simple - just do the maths. Sort out tax evasion first.

[K.Butt]

Hi K Butt,

I would have thought the answer was simple - just do the maths. Sort out tax evasion first.

 

They should chase them all! Not in any particular order either, anyone not paying their fair share of tax or claiming benefits illegally are all as bad as one another, regardless of the numbers.

[dippyhippy]

I agree for the most part with that.

 

Nobody wants to see fraudulent benefit claims - my point being that it is a tiny amount, 0.7%. Tax dodgers cost the economy far, far more.

 

Get the receipts in for the tax, then there will be money to sort out the rest, without further penalising the vulnerable.

 

Believe me, the vulnerable have already been punished enough under this government.

[Colin James]

Dippy, just a quick update, I have had a longer discussion with my good lady and amended her views in my previous response. I get the impression that the government are trying to get rid of corruption, the judges should follow the same law as everyone else but to be honest we are not really up to speed with it all just yet however, these reforms were in the governments manifesto so this has not come unexpected.

[dippyhippy]

Hi Colin, thanks for the update on your thoughts.

 

This is not about anti - corruption, it's about government having control of the judiciary system.

 

That is what is corrupt, which is why so many are protesting on the streets. I guess you get the government that's voted - which is why I campaign against austerity, and why the left/centrist are protesting against this.

 

With media and the judiciary under government control, this isn't a forward thinking step. Populist, isolationist policies may have seen them gain power, but how soon will any power be taken from the people?

 

A return to an authoritarianism rule is only going to go one way.

 

Not good news.

[Irena Sulecka]

Hi Colin, thanks for the update on your thoughts.

 

This is not about anti - corruption, it's about government having control of the judiciary system.

 

That is what is corrupt, which is why so many are protesting on the streets. I guess you get the government that's voted - which is why I campaign against austerity, and why the left/centrist are protesting against this.

 

With media and the judiciary under government control, this isn't a forward thinking step. Populist, isolationist policies may have seen them gain power, but how soon will any power be taken from the people?

 

A return to an authoritarianism rule is only going to go one way.

 

Not good news.

 

I do not share your view dippy. Politicians all over Europe get to chose their judges, so why can't Polands politicians chose theirs? This has now gone to the President for his decision, he has vetoed one of the bills and is going to look at it again, he wants all parties to be happy but in all honesty, I do not have much to complain about right now.

“I have decided to send back to parliament – in which case to veto – the law on the supreme court, as well as the law on the National Council of the Judiciary,†Andrzej Duda said in a televised announcement.

 

“The law would not strengthen the sense of justice in society,†he added, explaining that his decision came after lengthy consultations with legal experts over the weekend. “These laws must be amended,†he said.

 

The reforms proposed by the ruling Law and Justice party (PiS) would have increased political control over Poland’s judiciary. They triggered an angry response from critics, who accused PiS of trying to curtail the independence of the courts.

 

Duda’s declaration marks the first time that he has publicly split with Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the head of PiS. Since his inauguration, Duda has been seen as something of a Kaczynski puppet.

 

Some commentators are sceptical whether his apparent assertion of authority is authentic, or merely an attempt to quell the protests; cynics believe Duda will propose amendments that do little to address the main concerns about the legislation.

 

But Duda insisted that political interference in the judiciary should not be up for discussion. Among the changes was a proposal to allow the attorney general, a position held by the justice minister, to be able to influence decisions by the supreme court.

 

“It should not be part of our tradition that the attorney general can interfere in the work of the supreme court,†Duda said.

 

The ones demonstrating are in general the people who didn't vote for this party of course, all of these measures were outlined in their manifesto as Colin has already pointed out.

 

I am aware that this topic has now be hijacked but feel free to create a separate topic if you think it needs discussing in greater detail.

[dippyhippy]

Hi Irena, thanks for sharing your view.

 

I guess this is a situation that we will all have to watch unfold - as long as the media are permitted to report it!

 

Ah. Right wing governments eh.

[Irena Sulecka]

Hi Irena, thanks for sharing your view.

 

I guess this is a situation that we will all have to watch unfold - as long as the media are permitted to report it!

 

Ah. Right wing governments eh.

 

?? The media will report it, which is more than I can say for some other EU countries, who often omit the news that they do not want us to see. I am more than happy with the Polish government, they might not tick the boxes of your left wing views but it works for me and many other people, like I said earlier, I have no real complaints and neither do my immediate family and friends. As long as they stick to the Polish constitution I am sure this will all pass. 

[bobby47]

Dear Irena, Dippy's views aren't left wing. They're really not. They're the views of the majority of British people who vote for a wide range of political parties. They're the views of a humanist. Someone who cares about the weak, the mild and those incapable of looking after themselves.

This is modern evolved and advanced British society in progress where all, including the Meditteranean migrants and those who qualify for a blue badge can live their lives in peace cognisant that nobody will resent them a little slice of financial support and comfort. This is the way our Country has evolved.

As for the Polish government who I sincerely hope win their battle with Brussels but only because I want the EU to collapse, I agree that they have the support of their citizens who don't want their society to be anything other than white Christian Caucasian. Mind, whilst your country and others refuse to help with the migrants and yet still want the billions of Euro's in western aid, Italy and Greece are sinking beneath the burden.

[dippyhippy]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/25/polands-president-signs-controversial-law-despite-protests

 

An update.

[Irena Sulecka]

Dear Irena, Dippy's views aren't left wing. They're really not. They're the views of the majority of British people who vote for a wide range of political parties. They're the views of a humanist. Someone who cares about the weak, the mild and those incapable of looking after themselves.

This is modern evolved and advanced British society in progress where all, including the Meditteranean migrants and those who qualify for a blue badge can live their lives in peace cognisant that nobody will resent them a little slice of financial support and comfort. This is the way our Country has evolved.

As for the Polish government who I sincerely hope win their battle with Brussels but only because I want the EU to collapse, I agree that they have the support of their citizens who don't want their society to be anything other than white Christian Caucasian. Mind, whilst your country and others refuse to help with the migrants and yet still want the billions of Euro's in western aid, Italy and Greece are sinking beneath the burden.

 

Thank you for reposting on behalf of dippyhippy however, dippy's views are left wing and is proudly stated in this thread here - Thank you for noticing that I go against the opinion of the majority of contributors on here. I'm left and proud. I take full ownership of my values.

 

I do not know whether I should be offended by some of your remarks or not?

 

Poland cares for the disabled and gives money in support just as you do here in Britain, What, do you really think we don't? The only difference that I can see is that maybe we have more rigorous checks, but we do not  allow people make a mockery of this caring system. Your benefit system is costing all the British tax payers millions of pounds everyday and is under tremendous strain. You claim in your words "nobody will resent them a little slice of financial support and comfort" Well Bobby, I can assure you that my British friends and colleagues do actually resent people fraudulently claiming, because that is what we are talking about here! Please let's not confuse any of this with genuine claimants, I really do not believe anyone has a problem with helping people in genuine need of help.

 

As for you other comments, Poland has taken thousands and thousands of refugees, we choose to take them from the countries of our choice, such as the Ukraine. Poland will not bend over and bow down to the EU bully boy tactics subscribed to by Britain and some other countries, we have the right to decide who crosses our borders and the government has the full support of the Polish people, make no mistake about this. Where Britain takes their refugees from is a matter for Britain.

[Irena Sulecka]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/25/polands-president-signs-controversial-law-despite-protests

 

An update.

 

Professional protesters with nothing better to do dippyhippy a lot of the time, the President has vetoed his vote for the time being yet they are still not happy?? I don't know why they are protesting at this moment but thank you for your concerns however, I do think there are bigger and more pressing concerns in the UK right now so I wouldn't worry too much about Poland to be honest. 

We are now moving totally away from the topic in hand so I apologise to Colin before I get my knuckles wrapped 

[dippyhippy]

Afternoon Irena,

 

The link was the report that the President has signed the third of the controversial laws. He vetoed two...but they are just going back to be 'tweaked.'

 

I wouldn't call the reported ' hundreds of thousands ' of people on the streets ' professional protesters '.

 

I would though, term those bussed in from across the country, to give Trump a welcome, 'professional supporters.'

 

As I said before, I'm sure this will continue to unfold.....

 

I do agree that this has veered completely off topic, so I'll say no more!

 

Take care.