Traffic Cllr. Paul Rone 'Seek Before You Speak'

[Colin James]

I have just been listening to the live stream from Full Council held yesterday at the Shire Hall in particular, the reactions from various Councillors about the alternative budget proposed by IOC.

Live Stream can be found here

At around 228 of the live stream Cllr Paul Rone speaks, during his brief response I notice that he says that if turning off the traffic lights is such a good revolutionary idea, then why has nobody else done it? Well actually Paul, quoting you using your own words from yesterdays meeting, "Seek Before You Speak"

Turning off traffic lights has been successful in several towns and cities, one that comes to mind is Portishead, check out the video below:

Portishead Traffic Lights

Furthermore, you suggest that nobody has done this other than Invercargill in New Zealand, you also suggest that this place has a mere population of 7,500 people, well actually you are wrong sir, it is almost as big as Hereford! 

Education Lesson below:

Quote

Invercargill is the 13th-most-populous city in New Zealand by population (50,800). The top 10 cities in New Zealand are: Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Hamilton, Tauranga, Napier-Hastings, Dunedin, Palmerston North, Nelson, Rotorua.

Invercargill is the southernmost and westernmost city in New Zealand, and one of the southernmost cities in the world. It is the commercial centre of the Southland region.

You also say that it would be dangerous for pedestrians?? I am confused as there is no suggestion that any of the pedestrian traffic lights would be turned off at all, they would still be working, if this was given a trail and yes that is all we have ever asked for, a trial. Cllr. Rone also suggest that it would work for maybe 12 hours and then there would be mayhem? Again, we have video evidence much of which you will find on our youtube channel where the traffic lights have been out of order for several days and it is common knowledge that when these lights are out of service and using our words, the 'traffic just flows' in Hereford.

To suggest that the members commenting on here are irresponsible keyboard warriors is totally unfair, there has been a lot of research over the past 20 years including that of one of our members Martin Cassini, you can check out his credentials here

Martin Cassini on the One Show

Finally, you also ask why is nobody else doing this? Because people like you are all too quick to reject these proposals. Well as you can see above other towns and cities are doing this successfully or is your dismissal just down to the fact that this is not your or Cllr Edwards idea?

Cllr. Rone and Cllr. Edwards, I am passionate about our city and keen to explore all ideas that may eliminate the terrible daily congestion in Hereford, I just wish others would look and explore some of these ideas. 

[Steve Major]

I am just listening to this lay in the bath, I fast forwarded to the section where councillor Rone speaks, like you have said, it is not their idea Colin so they will always dismiss them, even though most Herefordians accept that the traffic situation is much better when the light are out of order, I think that is pretty evident.

[Victor Wright]

These are all good ideas and certainly worth exploring, always liked the tram along the Great Western Way idea, something else I believe he was against but there again he might have a thing may about trains  

[Adrian Pitt]

Turn the main traffic lights off! (obviously not pedestrian lights)

[H.Wilson]

He runs a taxi, it is not in his interest to turn off the lights, the clock is ticking while the taxi is sat waiting for the green one 

[Tom Smith]

Typical Tory response from Rone and also Phil Edwards supposed Independent who said pedestrians would be killed if lights turned off.

Please dont vote for these numpties May 2nd

[H.Wilson]

1 hour ago, Tom Smith said:

Typical Tory response from Rone and also Phil Edwards supposed Independent who said pedestrians would be killed if lights turned off.

Please dont vote for these numpties May 2nd

I agree, it was okay though years ago when they had their burger van parked outside the Greyhound Dog with people fuelled with alcohol straying onto the main road, no worries about the safety of those people back then. I remember they battled with the council back then to keep it open and I am certain that they lost, funny how things turn out eh.

[K.Butt]

How ironic hahaha HE tells others councillors to seek before they speak and another to think before they speak and he got all has facts spectacularly wrong.  That is really quite amusing, fabulous subject title. 

Just for Mr Rone

[ragwert]

The Newmarket roundabout lights are a perfect example as to why traffic lights need to be part time.
Pretty sick and tired of waiting for lights to go green in the evenings and early morning.
There are plenty of ways to improve traffic flow in the City but the Council seems to be hell bent on doing absolute sweet FA.

[John Harrington]

Oh dear oh dear, poor old Paul. The problem with adopting the confident "I'm a good old boy, I know everything, trust in me" casual posture whilst listening adoringly to the sound of one's own voice is you do need to at least know something. And to know something you need to do a little more than half skimming and misremembering your Google search - it will come to many Kiwis as somewhat of a shock that Invercargill lost 48000 odd residents overnight. God, Paul made Cllr Bruce Baker look intelligent with his idiotic ramblings on Shared Space and or variations of Shared Space, a term coined by Ben Hamilton-Baillie, which was meant to be descriptive of intent, not specific in description - ie/ you can adjust it to suit your town/city's circumstances. 

• Turning off traffic lights does not mean throwing the elderly, young and visually impaired into the road - crossings, even signal controlled, can and are often still used  
• Trials by micro-simulation would be done first before any live trials
• The Highways Agency, now Highways England,  offered to fund the micro-simulation
• Jesse Norman MP offered to help secure funding 
• Poynton, a Conservative controlled town in Cheshire has adopted a Shared space road redesign scheme with great success
• The heavily congested Cab Stands junction in Portishead has had it's lights removed with a reduction in congestion and accidents
• Accident rates always go down when traffic lights are removed
• Council or corporate liability is almost nil when lights are removed - ie/ 'accidents are up to you guv and your own actions'
• Cllr Rone is not an expert in road design nor do we seek or care for his open crisp packet, elbows on the edge of the bar opinions   
• Cllr Rone and the public do not care for my keyboard warrior opinions    
• If there is a political and public will it is the duty of Cllr Rone and myself and others to explore the possibility of experts giving us their expert opinion 
• Amey and or Balfour Beatty, will suffer a considerable reduction in budgetary income if lights are removed
• The Belmont (Asda) junction was a non traffic controlled roundabout years ago with more traffic using the road than there is now
• Likewise for the Steels Westgate (Tesco) roundabout
• This Conservative Cabinet has authorised the spending of over 5 million on trying to prove the case for a Western by Pass
• That's not provable because the Council officers can't actually produce documents to show if and how that overspend was authorised, I believe
• As a river crossing won't be completed for nearly a decade, let's crack on with easier and cheaper ways of getting the city moving 

[Alex]

19 hours ago, Tom Smith said:

Typical Tory response from Rone and also Phil Edwards supposed Independent who said pedestrians would be killed if lights turned off.

Please dont vote for these numpties May 2nd

Is this not the very same council that filled in the subway near Tesco in the city and are now contemplating closing the other one at the top of the new bridge..replacing them with even more lights! 

Virtually everyone locally knows that when the lights are out that the traffic congestion disappears, people have passed their tests, I think they need to give the motorists a little my credit. 

They complain about pedestrians being able to cross the road (I appreciate that turning off the lights does not mean turning of the pedestrian lights) but do noting about the constant danger of cyclists riding on the footpaths, like someone has already said, it is either because this whole idea of turning off the traffic lights and the idea of a tram system along the GWW derived from Colin here on Hereford Voice or it is simply down to the fact that it is not their idea, which is often the case with councillors. They need to look outside the box and give these ideas serious consideration.

[Denise Lloyd]

Elections coming up they might well change their tune and adopt Colin's suggestion as their own. 

[Adrian Bridges]

Colin agree they and Paul Rome do not have a clue how to create a traffic flow nor understand how to create an integrated transport system. 

 

May 19 is coming 

[K.Butt]

15 hours ago, John Harrington said:

Oh dear oh dear, poor old Paul. The problem with adopting the confident "I'm a good old boy, I know everything, trust in me" casual posture whilst listening adoringly to the sound of one's own voice is you do need to at least know something. And to know something you need to do a little more than half skimming and misremembering your Google search - it will come to many Kiwis as somewhat of a shock that Invercargill lost 48000 odd residents overnight. God, Paul made Cllr Bruce Baker look intelligent with his idiotic ramblings on Shared Space and or variations of Shared Space, a term coined by Ben Hamilton-Baillie, which was meant to be descriptive of intent, not specific in description - ie/ you can adjust it to suit your town/city's circumstances. 

• Turning off traffic lights does not mean throwing the elderly, young and visually impaired into the road - crossings, even signal controlled, can and are often still used  
• Trials by micro-simulation would be done first before any live trials
• The Highways Agency, now Highways England,  offered to fund the micro-simulation
• Jesse Norman MP offered to help secure funding 
• Poynton, a Conservative controlled town in Cheshire has adopted a Shared space road redesign scheme with great success
• The heavily congested Cab Stands junction in Portishead has had it's lights removed with a reduction in congestion and accidents
• Accident rates always go down when traffic lights are removed
• Council or corporate liability is almost nil when lights are removed - ie/ 'accidents are up to you guv and your own actions'
• Cllr Rone is not an expert in road design nor do we seek or care for his open crisp packet, elbows on the edge of the bar opinions   
• Cllr Rone and the public do not care for my keyboard warrior opinions    
• If there is a political and public will it is the duty of Cllr Rone and myself and others to explore the possibility of experts giving us their expert opinion 
• Amey and or Balfour Beatty, will suffer a considerable reduction in budgetary income if lights are removed
• The Belmont (Asda) junction was a non traffic controlled roundabout years ago with more traffic using the road than there is now
• Likewise for the Steels Westgate (Tesco) roundabout
• This Conservative Cabinet has authorised the spending of over 5 million on trying to prove the case for a Western by Pass
• That's not provable because the Council officers can't actually produce documents to show if and how that overspend was authorised, I believe
• As a river crossing won't be completed for nearly a decade, let's crack on with easier and cheaper ways of getting the city moving 

So let me get this right, they have already offered to fund trial micro-simulation? So what's the hold up or have I missed something? 

Phil Edwards has been working hard for the city for many years in all fairness, I do not agree with everything he has proposed, for example the tree boulevard but some of his other projects have been welcome. 

Instead of knocking these ideas why don't they sit down and discuss it or even comment and air their views on here.

[John Harrington]

K.Butt, the Highways England chap with overall responsibility for this road was a very sensible,  thoughtful and accommodating civil servant and manager, Andrew Butterfield. At the meeting at the Town Hall in Dec 2013 with Colin, Martin Cassini and members of The Hereford Transport Forum, he offered, wholeheartedly supported by Jesse Norman, to fund a micro-simulation trial of a 'lights out' scenario for both roundabouts and the bridge junction (Barton road). His only stipulation was that there had to be 'political will', explaining that although they did have the authority to act unilaterally on roads they were responsible for (the A49 is a trunk road and part of Highways England's Strategic Network) we really needed to get the support of Herefordshire Council. Can you see where things fell down?

After many many e-mails and only after getting dear old Olwyn Barnett involved (in her role as Chairman she rose above party politics and as per her role, she gave her fellow Conservative Philip Price one hell of a roasting for tardiness - oh I so would have loved to have seen his face as he received the blow dryer treatment) did we get a reply from the Cabinet via Cllr Price telling us they could not support this idea.   

It is quite staggering that that was their position, it was an offer of a free trial, what was there to lose? Oh, except perhaps the possibility that it may work and be so much cheaper and effective than the building of more roads.    

I hear what you say about Phil Edwards, he is apparently a good parish Cllr but he seems to fail to grasp the bigger ideas and opportunities presented at county level. I remember being in a meeting where the Indies and IOC were being lobbied by the prospective independent police commissioner for West Mercia and IOC and many Indies were asking question of some depth, relating to the structure and effectiveness of this relatively new and politicised positions and if it was any better than the old police boards that were apolitical and Phil Edwards spoke up when Barry seemed a bit flustered, unable to provide adequate responses to some of the more probing questions, and said, "I like Barry, he helped me buy a new lawnmower for the community in Newton farm, I'm voting for him". Fair enough Phil, keep it simple.

[twowheelsgood]

3 hours ago, Adrian Bridges said:

Colin agree they and Paul Rome do not have a clue how to create a traffic flow nor understand how to create an integrated transport system. 

May 19 is coming 

I would have thought a (former) councillor would at least have the correct election date to hand - Thursday 2 May - or is something else coming on 19 May?!

[Denise Lloyd]

Perhaps Rone Price and all the other who so support the bypass idea that they want to go down in the books as the ones who brought the bypass to Hereford.  Would they get the same notoriety with switching the lights off? 

[megilleland]

Some more videos to watch while waiting at the lights!

Rush Hour with No Traffic Lights: Spontaneous Order in Action

Want Less Car Accidents? Remove Traffic Signals and Road Signs

Lots of Cars and Trucks, No Traffic Signs or Lights: Chaos or Calm?

Ford imagines a future without traffic lights or stop signs

This Dutch town has traffic lights on the ground because people are staring at their phones

[bobby47]

John mentions that a local Councillor pledged his vote to someone just because they purchased a lawnmower! Good grief, it says a lot about our democratic processes and how the people select someone into a position of governance.

its probably not far from the truth. This is essentially what we all do. We vote for someone on the basis that we like their face or their personality. We take a peep at their photographic image and ask ourselves, which one we like, who got us a Lawnmower and which one is least likely to mug us on the way home or beat the living daylights out of us after we’ve tumbled out of an Ale House staggering home eating a mixed kebab.

When they come tapping on your door for your vote, and they will, they always do, to discover if they’re sincere and you can trust them, ask them, ‘Do you ever Mas.tu.rba.te’? If they say something like, ‘I certainly do’, then you can be sure that this is the person who you can trust to be honest and sincere once they’ve been propelled into Office.

However, if their answer is, ‘Frequently. More than I should’, and they then ask to cross your threshold and demonstrate it, tell them they are sick in mind and of the soul and you’ll be damned if you cast your vote for them. Don’t let them in. Tell them to clear off. Whatsmore, if they turn nasty call the Constable and seek some help in getting this crazed psychopath to leave you be.

Isn’t it interesting that all of a sudden both John and Adrian are suddenly keen to get read on Hereford Voice. It’s a sure sign that elections are on the way.

[John Harrington]

Bobby darling, you inconsistent, contradictory, fatally overweight and yet surprisingly agile Hollywood Lothario, it's not a case of being 'not far from the truth' sunshine, those are exactly the words that came out of Phil Edwards's pinched mouth.

Regards me and Adrian popping up with our tuppence's worth on HV, not only did Colin make me aware of this post and ask me to comment but Shared Space is something I and Colin and others are determined to bring to trial in Hereford City. Adrian has consistently been pushing for investment in 21st century solutions to our congestion and in particular has pushed hard for reinvestment in public transport and new rail links for the county. I admire him and his integrity hugely for it,

And yes, elections are soon upon us (thanks for reminding me you rotund tart, as if I haven't been having sleepless nights already) and poorly paid Councillors (like most of the IOC and Greens and some Indies on 600 quid a month for 60 hours plus a week) will be girding their loins and resisting people like me's heavy sweating advances (that make yours on unsuspecting and confused young bar maids seems almost gallant) as I try to persuade them to stand again - and then try and firm up the resolve of those that have been persuaded to stand afresh. And when they say, why should I go all through this for 4 years I'll say "because you have to, because you know if you don't no one else will and we'll have another 4 years of a Conservative Council and even more irreparable damage will be inflicted upon us, we just must keep fighting". 

And also, I'll say to them, as they look at the ground defeated and pensive - "and also if you don't, you be like that fat, hairy, sweating tub, King Bobby. He of the extraordinary long pockets, who apart from being in a band once that had an absolutely mesmerizing, enthralling and extraordinary routine, where they nailed their (willing?) drummer to a cross, just sits there now at some bar plank, a look that may briefly mimic intelligence fleeting across his much admired visage as tries to gather his cognitive wits together sufficiently for the upcoming task, narrows his eyes in on the small pool of golden ale he once again manages to lift towards his doleful mug, with an almost admirable, turgid, cross eyed, determination, before he takes another greedy sup and places the sleeve down gently once more on the varnish with the pride of a young boy's first steps. Whereupon, with that pride and recent sense of achievement spurring him on, he resumes sprouting pure impotent horseshit about he how he was once going to change the world himself - by making making a donation of time or money to IOC or the Greens or the Indies - but then discovered it took effort and time and sacrifice and would mean getting off his ample arse. And there may not be money or time then for that extra packet pork scratchings.....so that was that then. However he was still able to offer the occasional snide remark to help the revolution on it's way. 

 

           

[bobby47]

John, Brilliant writing. Simply brilliant. Rarely have I been insulted so well. Mind, if you can go a little easier on my weight that implies I’m now become a tub of lard, I’d be grateful to you.

Well done John. It was good reading and very well written. My best wishes and warmest regards to you, yours and your colleagues from IOC.

[John Harrington]

Bobby, you know I adore you, despite your truth bombs.

The allusion to your enormous girth revolves around us never having met but someone telling me that you looked a bit like me, What they meant was you had a beard. What I took from that was your were fat too. As fat as me, probably even fatter.

Fingers crossed for May 2nd Mon brave, keep up the good work, your comments are much enjoyed.    

[Colin James]

On 16/02/2019 at 23:10, John Harrington said:

Oh dear oh dear, poor old Paul. The problem with adopting the confident "I'm a good old boy, I know everything, trust in me" casual posture whilst listening adoringly to the sound of one's own voice is you do need to at least know something. And to know something you need to do a little more than half skimming and misremembering your Google search - it will come to many Kiwis as somewhat of a shock that Invercargill lost 48000 odd residents overnight. God, Paul made Cllr Bruce Baker look intelligent with his idiotic ramblings on Shared Space and or variations of Shared Space, a term coined by Ben Hamilton-Baillie, which was meant to be descriptive of intent, not specific in description - ie/ you can adjust it to suit your town/city's circumstances. 

• Turning off traffic lights does not mean throwing the elderly, young and visually impaired into the road - crossings, even signal controlled, can and are often still used  
• Trials by micro-simulation would be done first before any live trials
• The Highways Agency, now Highways England,  offered to fund the micro-simulation
• Jesse Norman MP offered to help secure funding 
• Poynton, a Conservative controlled town in Cheshire has adopted a Shared space road redesign scheme with great success
• The heavily congested Cab Stands junction in Portishead has had it's lights removed with a reduction in congestion and accidents
• Accident rates always go down when traffic lights are removed
• Council or corporate liability is almost nil when lights are removed - ie/ 'accidents are up to you guv and your own actions'
• Cllr Rone is not an expert in road design nor do we seek or care for his open crisp packet, elbows on the edge of the bar opinions   
• Cllr Rone and the public do not care for my keyboard warrior opinions    
• If there is a political and public will it is the duty of Cllr Rone and myself and others to explore the possibility of experts giving us their expert opinion 
• Amey and or Balfour Beatty, will suffer a considerable reduction in budgetary income if lights are removed
• The Belmont (Asda) junction was a non traffic controlled roundabout years ago with more traffic using the road than there is now
• Likewise for the Steels Westgate (Tesco) roundabout
• This Conservative Cabinet has authorised the spending of over 5 million on trying to prove the case for a Western by Pass
• That's not provable because the Council officers can't actually produce documents to show if and how that overspend was authorised, I believe
• As a river crossing won't be completed for nearly a decade, let's crack on with easier and cheaper ways of getting the city moving 

I have always had respect for Cllr Edwards but I was very disappointed with Cllr Edwards because as you will remember John during our presentation about the traffic lights trial to the City Council when Phil Edwards was Mayor he promised a letter in support to our campaign from the Mayors office, which as you know, never came...

[Tom Smith]

Yes Edwards is a lovely chap who mows the large green area in front of his house with a mower from Barry so that Balfour Beatty don't have too. Currently he is vice chairman of Herefordshire Council the Unitary authority and of course on a regular basis votes with his Blue mates. He will of course be standing again for City and County and if you want the status quo to remain you know what to do with your cross on May 2nd. Paul will be doing the same in Redhill out with mower, cooking at the Kindle centre but like Phil when it comes to the big difficult decisions like improving the traffic system in the City what will they do? Oh yes of course tell you more roads will be required one will be called a Bypass. Don't be fooled it's not a bypass it's a distributor road to allow the Tory paymasters such as Bloor homes to build housing to further block the west of the City.

The sensible thing would of course be to build new bridges to the west and east of the city and convert the existing "lines" in a light tramway.

Good luck all May 2nd 

[H.Wilson]

On 19/02/2019 at 06:50, Tom Smith said:

Yes Edwards is a lovely chap who mows the large green area in front of his house with a mower from Barry so that Balfour Beatty don't have too. Currently he is vice chairman of Herefordshire Council the Unitary authority and of course on a regular basis votes with his Blue mates. He will of course be standing again for City and County and if you want the status quo to remain you know what to do with your cross on May 2nd. Paul will be doing the same in Redhill out with mower, cooking at the Kindle centre but like Phil when it comes to the big difficult decisions like improving the traffic system in the City what will they do? Oh yes of course tell you more roads will be required one will be called a Bypass. Don't be fooled it's not a bypass it's a distributor road to allow the Tory paymasters such as Bloor homes to build housing to further block the west of the City.

The sensible thing would of course be to build new bridges to the west and east of the city and convert the existing "lines" in a light tramway.

Good luck all May 2nd 

I always thought that Colin's idea of a tram along the old railway lines was an excellent idea but it is falling upon deaf ears unfortunately.

[Alex]

Typical, too much hassle for a lights out trial for a week but okay to close Haywood Lane for 10 weeks for some timber footpath that nobody other than Phil Edwards wanted for his Haywood Park ongoing project 

[Tom Smith]

I see yesterday at planning that Edwards speaks out about the 178 bedroom student block that votes for it obviously he is a very shy Tory.

[Mick]

On 24/02/2019 at 16:28, Alex said:

Typical, too much hassle for a lights out trial for a week but okay to close Haywood Lane for 10 weeks for some timber footpath that nobody other than Phil Edwards wanted for his Haywood Park ongoing project 

I agree, not their idea though is it 

[Martin Cassini]

With regard to a traffic lights-off trial - to show that congestion improves and courtesy thrives when people are free to use their inner lights - if things are organised properly, we won't need pedestrian lights, because pedestrians will enjoy equality with other road-users. 

Preparation for a citywide trial will communicate a shift in the balance of power: away from the motorist, and in favour of the vulnerable road-user (where power rightly belongs). If anything, pedestrians will be "more equal than others".

Vulnerable road-users include side-road drivers because, like pedestrians and children, they are demoted and neglected under the current anti-social system of priority. See my website, Equality Streets, for more on this.

Given equality, the only justification for lights is at multi-lane intersections at peak times. Otherwise, in the absence of a bridge or flyover, let all junctions - and streets for that matter - be all-way give-ways. Universal benefits include a transformation in road safety, air quality and quality of life. 

I'm looking for a city to go traffic light-free for a possible TV series. It will take care of the public engagement elements. 

Councillors: there are no liability issues. I have chapter and verse on that.

Given a willing city and a TV series, Hereford could pioneer a peaceful revolution and be an example to the world.

Sad note. Ben Hamilton-Baillie died recently of cancer.

In later years, Ben ditched his own term, "shared space", in favour of "low-speed environments", partly because shared space is often confused with shared surfaces. We agreed on most things to do with traffic, diverging only on one point: Ben thought street redesign on its own could bring about the desired behaviour change from aggression to cooperation. I always thought it should be combined with a change in the basic rule of the road - from priority to equality - along with a new driving test, legal reform, culture change and re-education.

Martin Cassini

[megilleland]

Lets hope you get a green light!