New Cycle Lanes in Commercial Road Hereford

[Hereford Voice]

Cycle lanes are currently being painted onto Commercial Road tonight in both directions as part of the temporary travel measures scheme. There will still be access for cars in both directions.

Thoughts?

#HerefordVoice #HerefordNews #Hereford

 

[Hereford Voice]

[megilleland]

Just hope no one opens their car door across a cyclist - could be quite nasty.

[Aylestone Voice]

That danger is no different to how it has always been.

All this so called cycle lane does is attempt to reserve a space for cyclists where they would have been cycling anyway. So as a cyclist you are still at risk from the parked cars and have to hope that the vehicles passing you keep outside the lane - which in giving cyclists a 1 metre gap when passing they should be doing anyway 

It is no change from before

[ragwert]

The bike lane ends in the middle of three lanes then starts to be a ............... BUS lane   
Seriously whoever thought that one up needs some sense slapped into them.

[megilleland]

1 hour ago, Aylestone Voice said:

That danger is no different to how it has always been.

All this so called cycle lane does is attempt to reserve a space for cyclists where they would have been cycling anyway. So as a cyclist you are still at risk from the parked cars and have to hope that the vehicles passing you keep outside the lane - which in giving cyclists a 1 metre gap when passing they should be doing anyway 

It is no change from before

Yes, but the aim of cycle lanes is to encourage people to get out of their cars and the false security they create will no doubt catch some people lacking awareness. It's not unusual to see the younger element cycling along with no hands on the handlebars, wearing headphones listening to music and texting on their mobiles. Not a very good mix with all this traffic racing to get nowhere.

[Aylestone Voice]

2 hours ago, ragwert said:

The bike lane ends in the middle of three lanes then starts to be a ............... BUS lane   
Seriously whoever thought that one up needs some sense slapped into them.

And going towards Aylestone it just stops outside The Commercial. Now that might be handy for young Bobby47!

However both lanes seeing how they are laid out and go nowhere are hardly likely to encourage people to get on their bikes. I consider myself to be an experienced cyclist but tonight at 6.30 I felt no safer using the cycle lane than I have for years using that route. i.e. it is flipping dangerous!

[chris]

Quote

The cycle lane on Commercial road should be next to the pavement, away from the road traffic,  like it is on King Street. Cars are still going to be trying to park across the cycle lane, it really is no different to how it was before. Also as someone else has said, suddenly the cycle lane is in the middle of three lanes then crosses a bus lane !! It really is no better, possibly worse !!

 

[Jrtb]

Hi well I would like to point out about Commercial Road in Hereford with the alteration to make a cycling Lane, hence cutting down 2 lanes into 1 one and a cycling Lane which I find very unnecessary on that stretch.  cycling lanes are a good idea in some areas but that street did not need it. Cycling is supposed to be helpful towards the environment .... and I believe it is but not on Commercial Road.... as we no there used to be two lanes of traffic going down Commercial Road and the traffic used to get very piled up with two Lanes.... and now some congenital idiot has thought " hang on.... the traffic gets very busy down there with two lanes it gets piled up, I'll make things a little bit more difficult and cut it down to one lane which Will make the traffic twice as long in respect of a queue"...  which means the vehicles spend longer with her engines switched on in town in the now new one lane queue which is now twice as long when busy.... and I know people will grumble and somebody is going to have a say about it but that's fine that's what discussions are for, but for the life of me I cannot understand how this has been passed through planning???? it's just ridiculous.... I do understand the social distancing and that's a must,  but the cycle lane it's just a total waste of  money it has caused tailbacks of traffic in Commercial Road when it's busy. The money wasted could have gone in the pot towards the Bypass, that's what this town needs if there's a bypassed the roads will be freer for cycles hence no cycle lanes needed.... common sense really... on two occasions I have been sat in Commercial Road and on two occasions I have seen a total of 15 bikes and 12 of them were still using the pavement..... and the bikes that were in the cycle lane had no lights????so much for safty.....so whos keeping an eye on these bikes on the pavement and bikes with no lights????? Ive seen on more than one occasion especially in commercial road the police ignoring people riding on the pavement and with no lights.....what's the point??? what excuse could anybody make to justify that??.... I think the council's are trying to make Hereford as green as possible which is not a bad thing but they have to understand  you have got a lot of parents that do the school run before they go to town or work, and they are not going to get a couple of kids and all their stuff on a push bike drop them off and then rush off to work....... that's just an example but it's a way of life for some people and they are not going to change the way that they are it would be impossible for them to adapt in them circumstances..... I think the council's have done some very good things in the way of changes towards distancing with covid 19 but I stick to my guns with my comments about Commercial Road it's a flop a total waste of money and it just does not work..... tailbacks....traffic congestion.... and it does cause quite a bit of annoyance for some people who are stuck in the unnecessary tailbacks in Commercial Road and then you get people riding passed on the pavement not using the cycle lane..... it makes it all so unnecessary for everybody concerned... I for the life of me cannot understand why would you cut 2 lanes down to 1 when you know that those two lanes get absolutely chock-a-block in traffic peak hours??? why would you do it ???  common sense would tell you not to restrict the traffic flow any further to one lane as you need the traffic out of the town not sat in a longer queue... somebody obviously thinking that having a cycling Lane is going to be more green more helpful to the environment and safer when it's not in Commercial Road!!!!!  It just isn't..... people that live in Hereford know full well what Commercial Road gets like with two Lanes!!!!now there's going to be one!!!! it is going to be chaotic..... longer queues of traffic are not green , all that is happening is there is now 1 lane full of traffic pumping out fumes because they can't get out of the town quick enough due to Lane restrictions...I know this is only in one area that i no of that is a major cock up....but Commercial Road does see a lot of traffic that  passes through.... I think Commercial Road lane restriction  was a terrible mistake and I know that somebody to do with  sorting the Lanes from the council did announce  "they won't apologise for what they've  done with the cycle lanes"..... well I say  good for them because in some places it's a good idea but they're not going to hold their hands up for the cock up on Commercial Road because it would be rather embarrassing to retract what's been done

[Hereford Voice]

Welcome to the forum and thanks you for your contribution, hope to see you on here with ur other regulars.

There are some changes in the city at the moment and to be fair to the council that had to implement these within a tight time frame. This was all funded from Central Government who are also guiding many councils across the country to do similar things, I am aware that this is happening on Gloucester at the moment also.

Not sure about Commercial Road however, the bus lane was totally unnecessary and quite bizarre too.

I think the verdict is out at the moment and we have to give these temporary measures more time, the council are listening to people and adjusting and constantly reviewing these measures which can only be a good thing. People do not like change and we do not agree with all of the changes so it will interesting to see how it all pans out. There will be more changes and adjustments for sure.

We try to put a positive spin on thing where we can and we do get frustrated with all the constant moaning all the time without giving it a chance..

[megilleland]

It's not working in Berlin

Berlin reports rise in fatalities as new bike lanes fail to keep cyclists safe

(extracts)

A coronavirus-related drop in traffic and new protected bike lanes have failed to make Berlin’s roads safer for cyclists, as the German capital reports a four-year record in fatalities.

A woman run over by a right-turning articulated lorry in the district of Reinickendorf on Friday became Berlin’s 14th official cycling fatality of 2020 – more than twice as many as the six recorded in 2019.

In Berlin, district authorities spent the early days of lockdown building more than 14 miles of pop-up bike lanes, separated from car lanes by traffic beacons, to help cyclists stick to physical distancing.

But according to Siegfried Brockmann, an accident researcher for the German Insurance Association, the coronavirus crisis has mainly reduced the number of passengers on public transport, while the number of cars on the city’s roads has risen back to normal levels or higher.

Widening cycle paths not only failed to address those areas where accidents were most likely to occur, but could also have had an adverse effect, Brockmann suggested.

“If I speed up the cycling traffic, that doesn’t make it safer,” he said. “Two thirds of accidents involving but not caused by cyclists occur at crossings, turnings or on property driveways – and so far authorities have failed to come up with solutions to reduce the risk.”

Articulated lorries were involved in six of the 14 accidents resulting in cycling fatalities in Berlin this year. In a further incident, which was not officially recorded as a traffic accident, a journalist, 35, waiting at a traffic light, was run over by a lorry when its driver lost control of the vehicle.

[ragwert]

I'd like to see this 2 million Hfd Council are going to get from Govt  used to install proper cycle lanes & not this facical attempt at doing so by painting silly white lines.
Apart from the dangerous lane dividing and 20ft long bus lane on the other side of Commercial Road the pic below to me is an attempt to have as many cyclists as possible hit and maimed by oncoming vehicles.

[twowheelsgood]

They're still there, despite the statement from the Council that they would be removed by the end of the month. There's an interesting theory about this whole debacle and that is that it's deliberate malfeasance by senior officers who don't agree with the ruling political allegiances, who of course take the flak, whilst officers remain hidden.

[Hereford Voice]

2 hours ago, twowheelsgood said:

They're still there, despite the statement from the Council that they would be removed by the end of the month. There's an interesting theory about this whole debacle and that is that it's deliberate malfeasance by senior officers who don't agree with the ruling political allegiances, who of course take the flak, whilst officers remain hidden.

They will be removed this week, we understand possibly Thursday (weather permitting) delay due to bank holiday.

[twowheelsgood]

Were they not aware of the pending Bank Holiday when they issued the press release then?

[DataHoldsTheAnswers]

Well, the debate rages on! Personally I think the changes are much overdue and certainly needed. Yes I can see the frustration of being stuck in traffic, but as the original poster pointed out, everyone is in their cars during the school rush, and that's why the traffic is so BAD. It certainly isn't the cyclists' fault!  They hardly take up any road space at all.

I reckon COVID and the resulting change in working practices means that routinely coming to work 15 mins later because of a cycled school run won't actually be a problem for 99% of bosses and employees.

Many people have been hoodwinked by the Tory roadbuilding lobby (Chair of Jesse Norman's constituency association runs a road building consultancy!!) but the truth is that only 7% of Hereford's traffic, which is currently through traffic on the A49, would actually use the bypass. 93% of journeys in Hereford start and/or terminate in Hereford centre itself. Such as school run trips (as a good example). The only way to reduce the congestion with that pattern of vehicle and road use is to either

(1) build more and wider roads in central Hereford to accommodate all the mothers in SUVs. However, there isn't space for that!

OR

(2) Get those in cars, who could use an alternative mode of transport, to use that alternative mode. Yes, that means walking to school, cycling to work, taking the bus to the shops, etc.

What so many drivers seem to forget at they sit fuming about the traffic is that THEY ARE THE TRAFFIC! Or perhaps, like the police, it's one rule for them, and a different rule for everyone else? Who knows?

What is for sure though, is that a bypass, costing at least quarter of a billion taxpayers' quids and taking at least 10 years to plan, consult endlessly on and then build, won't actually solve the problem. It will only divert a tiny fraction of that traffic from Hereford, ie, the through traffic (7%) and those lucky enough to have a commute from, say, Belmont to Holmer, which can't be that many in the grand scheme of things.

At least with the cycle lanes they can be built quickly, don't cost much (I think in round 1 of Gov't funded improvements the Council only managed to bid for a paltry 40k), and at the end of the day, if they really don't work, can be removed pretty easily too. Unlike a hulking great dual carriageway across Grade 1 agricultural land.

We need to think what the future will look like with more CO2 in the atmosphere and more extreme flooding and climatic events happening. I hope for my children's sake that there are lots of bicycles and bike lanes included in the future vision!

[Hereford Voice]

4 hours ago, twowheelsgood said:

Were they not aware of the pending Bank Holiday when they issued the press release then?

Were talking about a few days to be fair, I understand that the council wanted it done this last week but due to other commitments and the bank holiday it was pushed back but we understand it maybe Thursday (weather permitting)

[ragwert]

22 hours ago, DataHoldsTheAnswers said:

Well, the debate rages on! Personally I think the changes are much overdue and certainly needed. Yes I can see the frustration of being stuck in traffic, but as the original poster pointed out, everyone is in their cars during the school rush, and that's why the traffic is so BAD. It certainly isn't the cyclists' fault!  They hardly take up any road space at all.

I reckon COVID and the resulting change in working practices means that routinely coming to work 15 mins later because of a cycled school run won't actually be a problem for 99% of bosses and employees.

Many people have been hoodwinked by the Tory roadbuilding lobby (Chair of Jesse Norman's constituency association runs a road building consultancy!!) but the truth is that only 7% of Hereford's traffic, which is currently through traffic on the A49, would actually use the bypass. 93% of journeys in Hereford start and/or terminate in Hereford centre itself. Such as school run trips (as a good example). The only way to reduce the congestion with that pattern of vehicle and road use is to either

(1) build more and wider roads in central Hereford to accommodate all the mothers in SUVs. However, there isn't space for that!

OR

(2) Get those in cars, who could use an alternative mode of transport, to use that alternative mode. Yes, that means walking to school, cycling to work, taking the bus to the shops, etc.

What so many drivers seem to forget at they sit fuming about the traffic is that THEY ARE THE TRAFFIC! Or perhaps, like the police, it's one rule for them, and a different rule for everyone else? Who knows?

What is for sure though, is that a bypass, costing at least quarter of a billion taxpayers' quids and taking at least 10 years to plan, consult endlessly on and then build, won't actually solve the problem. It will only divert a tiny fraction of that traffic from Hereford, ie, the through traffic (7%) and those lucky enough to have a commute from, say, Belmont to Holmer, which can't be that many in the grand scheme of things.

At least with the cycle lanes they can be built quickly, don't cost much (I think in round 1 of Gov't funded improvements the Council only managed to bid for a paltry 40k), and at the end of the day, if they really don't work, can be removed pretty easily too. Unlike a hulking great dual carriageway across Grade 1 agricultural land.

We need to think what the future will look like with more CO2 in the atmosphere and more extreme flooding and climatic events happening. I hope for my children's sake that there are lots of bicycles and bike lanes included in the future vision!

7% is only through traffic .....lol
Are you sure that's not the HGV count about 3 years ago that showed we had near 1,500 going through the City every single day?
 

[DataHoldsTheAnswers]

I am quoting the Hereford Traffic Survey that was undertaken in 2016 by the then Tory roadbuilding administration. The information is all available from John Harrington if you ask him. 1500 HGVs sounds about right. That means ~21500 car journeys on the same day (the 93%), which sounds like a underestimate to me, given that 55000 live in Hereford. You can gripe all you like, but maths doesn't lie (that's the job of statistics in the hands of politicians 😉 )  Anyway, since Beeching killed 2/3 of the railways, how else are shops meant to keep their shelves stocked if there aren't HGVs?

What's more is that there's information about where the journeys start and end, and very few Herefordians would save time or money by rerouting their journeys the long way round on a new bypass. If you want to go from Tupsley to Rotherwas would you really go via Holmer to Belmont first?! I can do that journey on the Greenway Bridge in less than ten mins, for zero fuel cost! But then, I try to think independently about what is the best way to do things, rather than follow the crowd.

[Jrtb]

I'd prefer the council to forget the cycle lanes in Commercial Road altogether and put the £2million they've been promised towards a better cause.... the Bypass... there would be far less traffic in town which would be a lot safer for "cyclists and pedestrians"......it would be far more beneficial environmentally as well I think.... I will wait for the normal criticisms about that reply to the topic.....but as I said before discussions and feedback get things sorted properly ..... and it would probably be nice to get a bypass sorted without knocking people's houses down although that is a slightly different subject....... nonetheless a topic far from being put to bed I feel.... why we can't just have a bypass that does not destroy homes and does not destroy the environment is baffling...... because the creatures in the countryside are important to and I know that if a bypass is put in place a lot of care and time goes into making sure that the wildlife is kept going and kept safe as  much as possible .... a lot of creatures are protected anyway against being wiped out or disturbed while construction is going on..... so anyway I'm glad that the cycle lanes have gone  although I was accused by one individual that felt they had to have a dig and mention that I was having a "cycling rant" ????? plonker..... what's he on about... it wasn't a decision made by just myself and my feedback...there was obviously plenty of feedback from people that could see it was senseless and dangerous where it was.....as a cyclist yourself plonker I would have thought you could have seen the dangers in Commercial Road to cyclists..... but you didn't report on that you were all  for the Dangerous and pointless Lanes..... only one thing I've got to say about that... you mentioned you had cycling insurance?... so as for being a concerned member of the public I would advise you to keep your payments up on your insurance sounds like you could need it at some point...so good news anyway that the Lanes are back to normal to help with the congestion.... there must be a few red faces in the council office nevermind humble.pie springs to mind...

 

[Jrtb]

On 02/09/2020 at 09:27, twowheelsgood said:

They're still there, despite the statement from the Council that they would be removed by the end of the month. There's an interesting theory about this whole debacle and that is that it's deliberate malfeasance by senior officers who don't agree with the ruling political allegiances, who of course take the flak, whilst officers remain hidden.

Rant???

[Roger]

The expensive changes came and went. At vast expense. In Commercial Road. 

[DataHoldsTheAnswers]

On 04/09/2020 at 20:18, Jrtb said:

I'd prefer the council to forget the cycle lanes in Commercial Road altogether and put the £2million they've been promised towards a better cause.... the Bypass... there would be far less traffic in town which would be a lot safer for "cyclists and pedestrians"......it would be far more beneficial environmentally as well I think.... I will wait for the normal criticisms about that reply to the topic.....but as I said before discussions and feedback get things sorted properly ..... and it would probably be nice to get a bypass sorted without knocking people's houses down although that is a slightly different subject....... nonetheless a topic far from being put to bed I feel.... why we can't just have a bypass that does not destroy homes and does not destroy the environment is baffling...... because the creatures in the countryside are important to and I know that if a bypass is put in place a lot of care and time goes into making sure that the wildlife is kept going and kept safe as  much as possible .... a lot of creatures are protected anyway against being wiped out or disturbed while construction is going on..... so anyway I'm glad that the cycle lanes have gone  although I was accused by one individual that felt they had to have a dig and mention that I was having a "cycling rant" ????? plonker..... what's he on about... it wasn't a decision made by just myself and my feedback...there was obviously plenty of feedback from people that could see it was senseless and dangerous where it was.....as a cyclist yourself plonker I would have thought you could have seen the dangers in Commercial Road to cyclists..... but you didn't report on that you were all  for the Dangerous and pointless Lanes..... only one thing I've got to say about that... you mentioned you had cycling insurance?... so as for being a concerned member of the public I would advise you to keep your payments up on your insurance sounds like you could need it at some point...so good news anyway that the Lanes are back to normal to help with the congestion.... there must be a few red faces in the council office nevermind humble.pie springs to mind...

 

Some facts:

The bypass's cost, by the Council's own estimation (ie extremely optimistic) is 200 to 250 million. So the 2 million you want would barely scratch 1% of the total estimated cost. It would build a lot of footpaths though!

In the surveying done in 2016 7% of the traffic in Hereford is through traffic on the A49. The other 93% is almost all private motor cars and light vans (amazon delivieries etc). I'm not making this up. These are the numbers that the Council will give you if you ask for them.

Everyone who lives in Hereford knows that it is the school run that creates massive congestion. The proposed bypass route doesn't really go very near many schools, and anyway, I wouldn't want my child walking along a 60mph dual carriageway to get to school.

I sympathise with the view that 'taking lorries out of Hereford' could be seen to be attractive and potentially to encourage walking and cycling, but the truth is many lorries have to come into Hereford as it is, because they supply shops and restaurants with all their goods. And then there's Rotherwas. It needs lots of HGV movements every day too. So even a bypass wouldn't remove all HGVs from Herefords's roads.

The truth is segregated bike lanes, to keep the idiots out of harm's way, would be a great boon for Hereford, and also its schoolchildren. Population in the UK has almost doubled since the War, and space is increasingly at a premium. If you have to drive a huge metal box round wherever you go, well fine, that is your 'right' but expect to pay for it! As we know from the terrible congestion in Hereford, there simply isn't space for everyone to sit in a car, and also get there quickly. Alternatives must be found. There was a recent investigative report  (https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/18711629.long-take-cross-city-now/) in the Hereford Times which detailed how the quickest mode of transport from Tescos to the station is, you guessed it, a bike! How extraordinary that a machine with a top speed of 20mph could be faster than a machine with a top speed of over 70mph. Perhaps we could learn something from it.

Opinionated feedback from non-experts is always welcome I'm sure in Council offices, but at the end of the day opinions don't change facts. It can't be easy arriving in a town hall where during the previous decade central Gov't has systematically starved it of all resources needed to actually carry out the necessary work to run the services we all need. Rather than constantly criticising the current council, perhaps we Herefordians would do better to consider how perhaps our own voting behaviour has put in place the 2010-2019 Tory austerity government that has undoubtedly wrought so much damage to this nation's once competent public services. Everyone reading this will know a teacher or a nurse or just someone who lost their job in public sector. Deep down we all know what damage has been done, and we hate to face up to admitting how long it may take to repair, especially as we all voted for it!