Belmont Roundabout Keep Clear Signs

[Colin James]

I cannot believe how the new signs look. This is the result of the new KEEP CLEAR signs

How useless is that! restricted to one lane, so cars coming from Abergavenny will completely miss this and will still continue to queue preventing vehicles from Belmont getting onto the Belmont Road as you can see, this defeats the whole object and anyone trying to edge their way out from Belmont will cover this little sign!

So I thought I would help Amey out by giving them a little clue on how it should look...

[Frank Smith]

That is pathetic, I am sorry but how stupid is the person who authorised this? as you have said, this has been a totally pointless excercise and it has taken 3 years for Amey to come up with this! what a joke.

[M. Preece]

Complete incompetence

[P. Rowe]

This has made my day ha ha utterly useless, like that will work

[Glenda Powell]

Complete incompetence

 

Having seen the photographs Colin James took today when he contacted me this afternoon, I have sent my comments to Amey, advising them what I actually said when we had site meeting in November which was: the keep clear signs needed to be put across the whole road from Abbotsmead Rd / Northolme Rd / Southolme Rd to reach the edge of the island on the other side. I have now ask for this to be put right by the end of this coming week

[P. Rowe]

Having seen the photographs Colin James took today when he contacted me this afternoon, I have sent my comments to Amey, advising them what I actually said when we had site meeting in November which was: the keep clear signs needed to be put across the whole road from Abbotsmead Rd / Northolme Rd / Southolme Rd to reach the edge of the island on the other side. I have now ask for this to be put right by the end of this coming week

 

What a waste of money, why on earth could they not get it right the first time? Amey should look at this website to see some of the comments made and also the pictures that Colin James has provided, especially the last one, then at least they might get it right.

 

Thank you for your efforts Councilor

[nikki]

Hahahahahahaha....nothing surprises me anymore!

will be on that road in the morning..probably be laughing again (while sat in the traffic!)

[P. Rowe]

They must of thought that we all drives cars like Mr Magoo, like the one in the 2nd picture ha ha

[Bill Thomas]

After looking at the first couple of pictures surely the person who painted these must of realised that these signs are far to small and would be ineffective? Any car coming out from any of these junctions will be actually be over the sign, hiding it. What a complete waste of time, this will have to be rectified now.

[H.Wilson]

The title of this posting say's it all

[Glenda Powell]

What a waste of money, why on earth could they not get it right the first time? Amey should look at this website to see some of the comments made and also the pictures that Colin James has provided, especially the last one, then at least they might get it right.

 

Thank you for your efforts Councilor

 

I have spoken with Amey today to ask if the signs can be extended further into the road I am waiting for them to come back to me. Amey has seen what you all have written, whilst I understand your frustration as local councillor I hope you realise I cannot coment on your disparaging remarks towards Amey.

[H.Wilson]

I have spoken with Amey today to ask if the signs can be extended further into the road I am waiting for them to come back to me. Amey has seen what you all have written, whilst I understand your frustration as local councillor I hope you realise I cannot coment on your disparaging remarks towards Amey.

To be fair, it is not rocket science, anyone with half a brain can clearly see that the work they have done renders pretty useless, come on!

A KEEP CLEAR sign is making a command/statement and this hardly does that does it? lets hope this is rectified asap.

 

I would suggest that they over paint the signs and re paint newer march larger and central to the road signs, going from the juctions to the edge of the roundabout.

[P. Rowe]

To be fair, it is not rocket science, anyone with half a brain can clearly see that the work they have done renders pretty useless, come on!

A KEEP CLEAR sign is making a command/statement and this hardly does that does it? lets hope this is rectified asap.

 

I would suggest that they over paint the signs and re paint newer march larger and central to the road signs, going from the juctions to the edge of the roundabout.

You took the words out of my mouth, well said.

[Glenda Powell]

To be fair, it is not rocket science, anyone with half a brain can clearly see that the work they have done renders pretty useless, come on!

A KEEP CLEAR sign is making a command/statement and this hardly does that does it? lets hope this is rectified asap.

 

I would suggest that they over paint the signs and re paint newer march larger and central to the road signs, going from the juctions to the edge of the roundabout.

 

This is the response I received this afternoon from Amey:

 

Good Afternoon Cllr Powell,

 

I have spoken to Amey's Consulting Department and they have confirmed that the KEEP CLEAR markings which have been installed to the roundabout by Belmont Tesco's) are adequate and we are happy for them to remain as they are. drawings were provided to various Ward councillors prior to the works commencing and no objections were put forward at that time.

 

According to the TSRGD(Traffic Signals egulate general Direction) hand book, the width of the KEEP CLEAR markings has been extended to the maximum 2550mm.

 

Please feel free to contact me if you require further clarification.

 

Best wishes

 

Joanne Davies

 

Customer Service Advisor / Amey

 

01432 845933 / email: joanne.davies@amey.co.uk

 

 

END

[P. Rowe]

Well again an unbielable response, that are not adequate, because as soon as any car tries to edge it's way out from that junction when there is a queue of traffic (everyday) hey will be covering the little sign, they just do not want to do it again and admit that they are wrong. Have a look at this picture taken in London, this is how it should be and they know it!

 

 

I can show them plenty of other examples from around the country.

 

The KEEP CLEAR sign should be in the centre of the carriageway, the way they have done it, looks far too small for a start and is restrcited to the inside lane, when clearly traffic approaching the roundabout is in the middle of the carriageway as you can see from the other pictures provided by Colin James.

 

Have a look at the vehicle in this picture.

 

When there is a huge queue, do you think this vehicle would keep the exits clear looking at this picture? NO is the obvious answer. This needs rectifying, residents are not happy and at the end of the day, Amey are contracted by the council who in turn are elected by us, this work has not been carried out as was requested and as it stands it's useless. I am that annoyed that unless something sensible is done, I will be writing to the Hereford Times because this is just pathetic!

[Victor Wright]

Well again an unbielable response, that are not adequate, because as soon as any car tries to edge it's way out from that junction when there is a queue of traffic (everyday) hey will be covering the little sign, they just do not want to do it again and admit that they are wrong. Have a look at this picture taken in London, this is how it should be and they know it!

 

 

I can show them plenty of other examples from around the country.

 

The KEEP CLEAR sign should be in the centre of the carriageway, the way they have done it, looks far too small for a start and is restrcited to the inside lane, when clearly traffic approaching the roundabout is in the middle of the carriageway as you can see from the other pictures provided by Colin James.

 

Have a look at the vehicle in this picture.

 

When there is a huge queue, do you think this vehicle would keep the exits clear looking at this picture? NO is the obvious answer. This needs rectifying, residents are not happy and at the end of the day, Amey are contracted by the council who in turn are elected by us, this work has not been carried out as was requested and as it stands it's useless. I am that annoyed that unless somthing is done I will be writing to the Hereford Times because this is just pathetic!

 

I am sure that I have seen bigger signs than these that have been painted, however, forgetting the size issue for one moment, just a little common sense suggests to me that these signs should of been centred across the whole carriage and not to one side like they have been placed, this completely defeats the object and purpose that they are for becuase vehicles trying to come across the carriageway are going to hide these and as already mentioned the traffic coming into the city are already in the middle of the road and will feel that becasue these signs are to the left side that it only applies to the left hand lane. They need to be in the centre of the road! as in the London picture, are the rules for London different than for Hereford then?

[Colin James]

Councillor Powell, when I spoke with you yesterday, you told me that you had requested that the signs go from the edge of the junction across to the edge of the roundabout,

Having seen the photographs Colin James took today when he contacted me this afternoon, I have sent my comments to Amey, advising them what I actually said when we had site meeting in November which was: the keep clear signs needed to be put across the whole road from Abbotsmead Rd / Northolme Rd / Southolme Rd to reach the edge of the island on the other side. I have now ask for this to be put right by the end of this coming week

now according to Amey's letter and the sizes permitted this would not of been possible, so I am suprised that they did not point this out at the time of your request, furthermore, Amey have stated that drawings were provided to ward councillors without objections being received prior to the work being carried out, so you must of seen a draft copy, yes?

 

Anyway, with regard to sizes;

 

1. Why couldn't Amey just have centred the signs to cover both carriageways?

 

2. Can Amey now install additional signs next to the existing ones, covering the other lane (side by side) as traffic coming nto the city will automatically think that these signs are only for those vehicles in the left hand lane and not them, as they are already in the middel of the road as you can clearly see from the images provided.We do not really need a sign around the other side coming from Newton Farm as the traffic does not really build up there, we only really need to cover the junctions of Abbotsmead Road and Dorchester Way.

 

With regard to permitted sizes I am a little confused as I was in Barton Road earlier and could not help but notice the large KEEP CLEAR sign on the juction of Friars Street, now while the "KEEP" word is within tolerance at 2400 in height the "CLEAR" word a considerably bigger at 2850 in height, but over 3650 in width! and from white line to white line it is over 9010 in length that's nearly 30ft! covering that juction perfectly, so why is that? Maybe Amey can provide us with the answer seeing as they would possibly of installed it...

 

Picture below;

 

 

All we actually need is either these signs re-done and centred or additional signs put in the right hand lane, otherwise this whole project will have been a waste of time and money. The whole idea was to prevent the queues of traffic coming into the city blocking these exits and preventing vehicles from Belmont crossing the roundabout, which at the moment is not going to change unless this is rectified in some manner.

 

(2 Keep Clear Markings (TSRGD Diagram No 1026)

2.1 This is an advisory marking that should be used in mainly urban areas where the traffic flow to side roads or public accesses are temporarily blocked due to queues of traffic being generated by another junction. The two types of location they can be considered are:

i. Where a queue of vehicles waiting at one junction blocks back across another, thereby obstructing the flow of cross traffic.

ii. At a private entrance used by the general public (eg access to a supermarket), but only in places where it can genuinely be helpful in maintaining a smooth traffic flow.)

 

I am also keen to write to the paper as I think this is a joke, but I will wait to see what the outcome is to be fair.

[nikki]

Amey has seen what you all have written, whilst I understand your frustration as local councillor I hope you realise I cannot coment on your disparaging remarks towards Amey.

I am glad Amey are reading this..and taking note

 

[Glenda Powell]

Councillor Powell, when I spoke with you yesterday, you told me that you had requested that the signs go from the edge of the junction across to the edge of the roundabout, now according to Amey's letter and the sizes permitted this would not of been possible, so I am suprised that they did not point this out at the time of your request, furthermore, Amey have stated that drawings were provided to ward councillors without objections being received prior to the work being carried out, so you must of seen a draft copy, yes?

 

Anyway, with regard to sizes;

 

1. Why couldn't Amey just have centred the signs to cover both carriageways?

 

2. Can Amey now install additional signs next to the existing ones, covering the other lane (side by side) as traffic coming nto the city will automatically think that these signs are only for those vehicles in the left hand lane and not them, as they are already in the middel of the road as you can clearly see from the images provided.We do not really need a sign around the other side coming from Newton Farm as the traffic does not really build up there, we only really need to cover the junctions of Abbotsmead Road and Dorchester Way.

 

With regard to permitted sizes I am a little confused as I was in Barton Road earlier and could not help but notice the large KEEP CLEAR sign on the juction of Friars Street, now while the "KEEP" word is within tolerance at 2400 in height the "CLEAR" word a considerably bigger at 2850 in height, but over 3650 in width! and from white line to white line it is over 9010 in length that's nearly 30ft! covering that juction perfectly, so why is that? Maybe Amey can provide us with the answer seeing as they would possibly of installed it...

 

Picture below;

 

 

All we actually need is either these signs re-done and centred or additional signs put in the right hand lane, otherwise this whole project will have been a waste of time and money. The whole idea was to prevent the queues of traffic coming into the city blocking these exits and preventing vehicles from Belmont crossing the roundabout, which at the moment is not going to change unless this is rectified in some manner.

 

(2 Keep Clear Markings (TSRGD Diagram No 1026)

2.1 This is an advisory marking that should be used in mainly urban areas where the traffic flow to side roads or public accesses are temporarily blocked due to queues of traffic being generated by another junction. The two types of location they can be considered are:

i. Where a queue of vehicles waiting at one junction blocks back across another, thereby obstructing the flow of cross traffic.

ii. At a private entrance used by the general public (eg access to a supermarket), but only in places where it can genuinely be helpful in maintaining a smooth traffic flow.)

 

I am also keen to write to the paper as I think this is a joke, but I will wait to see what the outcome is to be fair.

 

May I suggest that you contact Joanne Davies at Amey and put your questions direct to her.

In regard to the diagrams sent to councillors:

 

1. Yes I received the diagrams, I advised they were not very clear.

2. I did object, and ask as I have said for the size to be increased

3. you saw the answer I received that I posted here yesterday.

[M. Preece]

May I suggest that you contact Joanne Davies at Amey and put your questions direct to her.

In regard to the diagrams sent to councillors:

 

1. Yes I received the diagrams, I advised they were not very clear.

2. I did object, and ask as I have said for the size to be increased

3. you saw the answer I received that I posted here yesterday.

 

So when did you object? before or after the work was carried out?

[Glenda Powell]

So when did you object? before or after the work was carried out?

 

As i have stated When I received the diagrams and since!

[Alex]

May I suggest that you contact Joanne Davies at Amey and put your questions direct to her.

In regard to the diagrams sent to councillors:

 

1. Yes I received the diagrams, I advised they were not very clear.

2. I did object, and ask as I have said for the size to be increased

3. you saw the answer I received that I posted here yesterday.

 

With respect to Councilor Powell, I thought you were elected to represent the contituents of Belmont, so should you not be dealing with these complaints or are you only interested in the glory?

[M. Preece]

As i have stated When I received the diagrams and since!

Ok that's fine, as long as you objected prior to the work being carried out, as Amey in their letter have said that no objections were received, so I was confused and wanted to clarification. Thank you.

[Glenda Powell]

With respect to Councilor Powell, I thought you were elected to represent the contituents of Belmont, so should you not be dealing with these complaints or are you only interested in the glory?

 

Alex. I did not appreciate your remark, yes I was elected to represent the people of the Belmont Ward, and have done so continuously for the past 8 years. I have and I am still continuing to deal with the complaints lodged here! In regard to your comment 'are you only interested in the glory' with respect if you knew me better you would know I am here 100% for the people of my ward, and I can assure you there is no glory in being a councillor! I became a councillor to improve the area that I represent, NOT for any accolade!

[Alex]

Alex. I did not appreciate your remark, yes I was elected to represent the people of the Belmont Ward, and have done so continuously for the past 8 years. I have and I am still continuing to deal with the complaints lodged here! In regard to your comment 'are you only interested in the glory' with respect if you knew me better you would know I am here 100% for the people of my ward, and I can assure you there is no glory in being a councillor! I became a councillor to improve the area that I represent, NOT for any accolade!

I was referring to you suggesting that we contact Amey direct, surely that is down to you to deal with as our repesentative...

[Glenda Powell]

I was referring to you suggesting that we contact Amey direct, surely that is down to you to deal with as our repesentative...

 

As I said the offer was from Amey in their email to me to contact Joanne Davies if clarification was needed, I have spoken to her this morning again asking for further signs to be installed if possible, also asking them to write on BV in answer to your questions. as you all are continuing with the discussion I am a true believer in asking the person responsible ( I am not trying to evade my responsibilities) that way you get the answer 'straight from the horses mouth' so to speak!

[Colin James]

I had a very long 45min conversation with Justine Heath from Amey today, she kindly took the time to explain to me the restrictions and guidelines that they have to work within with regard to road signage, some of which to be fair I was unaware of.

 

The new signs I have measured and they are within the tolerances as set out by the department of transport. I have suggested to Justine that maybe a compromise could be to have the same signs repeated in the right hand lane, as most of the traffic coming into the city is already in the right hand lane as you can see from the pictures.

 

Like this picture;

 

To be fair Justine has emailed the DOT with these suggestions, also asking for their recommendations and guidelines on how we can overcome the current situation. She has advised me that the DOT can take up to 2-3 months to reply but as soon as they have she would come back to me. She has also suggested that guidelines around the roundabout may be an idea, as really the right hand lane should be used as per the highway code (for traffic going around and not into town, the left hand lane is for the traffic going into the city, although based on the position of the roundabout it is easy to see why traffic finds itself in the right hand lane).

 

I understand the Councillor Edwards seems to think that the current signage is ok, (as per his email to Amey) and working well? he obviously was not in the traffic at 8.15am this morning then, as it had made no difference what so ever.(Unless he was on his bicycle) I still had to fight my way out of the junction as I do most mornings. Jutine also confirmed that she was well aware of this ongoing problem as she had previously lived in Belmont and was also subject to these traffic problems on many occasion.

 

Now that I have been given all the facts and details from Amey, I think it only fair that I offer my sincere appologises for my initial outburst, condeming them. This was down to being slightly misinformed and a build up of frustration as it has taken 3 years to have these signs implimented, only for me to feel greatly disappointed as the end result was not what I believed it would be.

 

As suggested by Justine Heath, I would like all members to monitor this junction reporting information and pictures where possible in support of our case, which I think is a great idea. Justine commented that this website was useful and hopefully she will now register in order to be able to give our members accurate information from time to time so that we have the clear facts before we comment.

 

Justine could not comment on the Barton Road sign as she was not involved with that, so that one is still unexplained...

 

I would like to extend my appreciation for the time she gave me today explaining all the details and issues that she faces with regard to the guidelines set out by the DOT. It may be a while before they come back to her with their suggestions but in the meantime all we can do is monitor the situation.

 

I would also like to thank Councillor Powell for her continuing efforts in trying to resolve this issue.

[H.Wilson]

Thank you for the update Colin. 

[Colin James]

Justine asked us to monitor the traffic, so here is a picture that I literally took 15 mins ago at 9.25am this morning, as you can see the new signs are NOT working!! So I fail to see how Councillor Edwards thinks it is?

As you can see the person in the grey car cannot get out! Maybe a solution would be land guidance?

 

Another

 

[Belmonthereford]

I cannot believe how the new signs look. This is the result of the new KEEP CLEAR signs

 

 

 

How useless is that! restricted to one lane, so cars coming from Abergavenny will completely miss this and will still continue to queue preventing vehicles from Belmont getting onto the Belmont Road as you can see, this defeats the whole object and anyone trying to edge their way out from Belmont will cover this little sign!

 

So I thought I would help Amey out by giving them a little clue on how it should look...