Cannot Purchase Hot Food In Hereford City After 1.30am

[stupidfrustration]

I couldn't name them all, but Flames and good number of others from Union Street, as well as 3-4 in Bridge Street off of the top of my head.

I mean Bridge Street is absolutely dead now, it's like walking down a deserted ally at night there. It used to be bustling with revellers and eateries - now even the street lights struggle to make an appearance.

 

I actually posted not too long ago about walking all over town looking for a good takeaway burger (in the day) and succumbed to eating a tesco prawn sandwich in the car.

 

Perhaps there are less revellers out and about these days, maybe due to the supermarkets being so cheep, and as there are less party goers for "fightclub" and "pill loved up club" and Fusion, Saxtys etc, then there is less call for the late night food houses.

 

I remember your post about the prawn sandwich, and I remember some of the points, but because you could not find a place good enough for you to eat, hardly makes the point.

There are plenty of places to eat in Hereford, from "high end" to "low end".

 

I will however agree, that a great "proper Hereford beef" burger, something like what the Jail House owners create would be a great day time restaurant in Hereford. Beefy Boys to get their own restaurant in town? Now thats a great idea! But only till 01.30 ;-) 

[dippyhippy]

Good Grief Stupidfrustration!

 

Please don't tell me this is all the fault of the seagulls...??!!!

[Roger]

My perception is that the Cops have got this ingrained nod and a wink arrangement with the Council so that it impacts less on their shift patterns .... Nothing to do with trying to reinvent the City Nightlife ... Just another tool to minimise the shift strength at night! All the Policing of mundane stuff is now via a CSO but they all go home to their bed at night so as they have all fcuked off you are stuck with a chip shop ban .... !!!!! 

[stupidfrustration]

Good Grief Stupidfrustration!

 

Please don't tell me this is all the fault of the seagulls...??!!!

Sorry - Seagulls are just another of my frustrations! Not THE ONLY frustration, and no, they are not the real issue here, but they are part of the by product of late night food houses.

 

As with the new University, there at long last appears to be some joined up thinking by the powers that be with this city, and I think in the next few years this city will change for the better.

[dippyhippy]

Ah...joined up thinking! Sadly lacking though in the Boys Home debacle

 

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on that....on the appropriate thread of course!!.

[stupidfrustration]

My perception is that the Cops have got this ingrained nod and a wink arrangement with the Council so that it impacts less on their shift patterns .... Nothing to do with trying to reinvent the City Nightlife ... Just another tool to minimise the shift strength at night! All the Policing of mundane stuff is now via a CSO but they all go home to their bed at night so as they have all fcuked off you are stuck with a chip shop ban .... !!!!! 

So - should my tax's going on policing budgets till 5am so the kebab shops can stay open till 4am?

 

Cops working with the council - madness I say, who would want those two authorities working together for a safer city.

 

Ive picked up over time that you are an ex cop? Just out of interest what rank did you get to? ( I honestly dont know the answer to that question, just trying to understand your knowledge level ) 

[Colin James]

Hi Colin,

 

I know you are the boss around here, but I have a couple of questions for you?

 

1) Have you asked the police and council re their views about trouble in late night food houses?

And 

2) Which establishments have shut in lets say the last 3 years as they lacked trade after 0135?

 

Not looking to argue - I know you run the site, but I think they are fair questions?

 

Hi there and welcome to HV.

 

These are perfectly good questions which I will attempt to answer.

 

1. I contacted the council a few years ago and was told that hot food served late at night needs licensing and food establishments need to apply for late licences which seem to be rejected. Paul Neades (Landlord of Yates) may be able to throw more light on this but basically the police are trying to save money here by employing less officers on the weekends!

 

2. Well it is easier to ask which establishments are not allowed to serve hot food after 1.30am. Not so long ago you could get hot food from The Golden Galleon until 3-4am Chinese take aways were usually open until at least 2-3am, I remember grabbing a Chinese at 2am on my way home after finishing my shift working on the door. The Chinese in Bridge St was always open. Who remembers the Lotus?? that used to close at 4am!

 

Have a read through this whole topic and you will get the general idea, I appreciate that back before the licensing laws were relaxed everyone would pile out into Commercial Rd at 1am and often (like in most town and cities throughout the country) alcohol fuelled people would let their emotions run high and fights inevitably would break out, this happens every weekend, not just in Hereford but the changes came into effect at the same time that the licensing laws were relaxed ??? Nowadays, people tend to go out later because there is no mad rush to get the drinks down your throat before 11pm and a mad dash to the nightclub or you would not get in. Instead of a mass exodus from the nightclubs at 1 or 2 am now there is steady trickle of people leaving at all hours, so the problems of the past are no longer there! So its beyond me why the council in Hereford enforce this stupid pointless curfew on hot food, like its going to make a difference! 

 

People now go to the Lunchbox in Commercial Rd, (drive past at 2am on a Friday or Saturday, rarely any problems) or they will go to the 24 hour garage, or Tesco, so why not a restaurant or takeaway?

[Aylestone Voice]

It seems to be around public order and police finances. In reality it is about fairness. Why should it be that the cold food shops - Lunchbox, petrol station etc. can be open until dawn if they want but the hot food places cannot?

What are the reasons the police and the council give for there being more problems with customers who want hot food as opposed to cold food.

After all I expect the area still needs to be policed. What is needed is for one of the hot food shops to apply to amend their licencing hours and then for the matter to be debated.

[Alex]

It seems to be around public order and police finances. In reality it is about fairness. Why should it be that the cold food shops - Lunchbox, petrol station etc. can be open until dawn if they want but the hot food places cannot?

What are the reasons the police and the council give for there being more problems with customers who want hot food as opposed to cold food.

After all I expect the area still needs to be policed. What is needed is for one of the hot food shops to apply to amend their licencing hours and then for the matter to be debated.

 

Yep that's sounds about right and I agree it is about fairness this is unfair on all the hot fast food places, take aways and restaurants. 

[stupidfrustration]

1. I contacted the council a few years ago and was told that hot food served late at night needs licensing and food establishments need to apply for late licences which seem to be rejected. Paul Neades (Landlord of Yates) may be able to throw more light on this but basically the police are trying to save money here by employing less officers on the weekends!

 

 

Thank you Colin for your reply.

So looking at the above - what is wrong with that?

Once again should my taxs be going on extra police at the 4am shift change so 50 people can get a burger at 3.45 in the morning?

 

That can not be the reason or they would let late night food establishments trade till 3am with hot food?

(I am guessing here)

[stupidfrustration]

2. Well it is easier to ask which establishments are not allowed to serve hot food after 1.30am. Not so long ago you could get hot food from The Golden Galleon until 3-4am Chinese take aways were usually open until at least 2-3am, I remember grabbing a Chinese at 2am on my way home after finishing my shift working on the door. The Chinese in Bridge St was always open. Who remembers the Lotus?? that used to close at 4am!

 

 

Yes - all understood

[stupidfrustration]

Have a read through this whole topic and you will get the general idea, I appreciate that back before the licensing laws were relaxed everyone would pile out into Commercial Rd at 1am and often (like in most town and cities throughout the country) alcohol fuelled people would let their emotions run high and fights inevitably would break out, this happens every weekend, not just in Hereford

 

 

So this does not happen too much in Hereford due to the licensing restrictions imposed by the council?

A good thing right?

 

 

 

but the changes came into effect at the same time that the licensing laws were relaxed ??? Nowadays, people tend to go out later because there is no mad rush to get the drinks down your throat before 11pm and a mad dash to the nightclub or you would not get in. Instead of a mass exodus from the nightclubs at 1 or 2 am now there is steady trickle of people leaving at all hours, so the problems of the past are no longer there! So its beyond me why the council in Hereford enforce this stupid pointless curfew on hot food, like its going to make a difference!

 

 

I kinda agree but as with everything it's about reducing issues. Kebab shops mean people who have had a drink congregate and many people together - hanging around without security COULD mean fights occur. Not having hot food - or the council using their powers to reduce the problem is surely a good thing?

 

 

 

People now go to the Lunchbox in Commercial Rd, (drive past at 2am on a Friday or Saturday, rarely any problems) or they will go to the 24 hour garage, or Tesco, so why not a restaurant or takeaway?

 

As above - people who have had a drink will eat within saxtys / play / fusion with security around and then go home - or you look at other towns without this ruling and people hang around in these food houses till all hours creating mess and the potential for fights to happen - without security

[stupidfrustration]

It seems to be around public order and police finances. In reality it is about fairness. Why should it be that the cold food shops - Lunchbox, petrol station etc. can be open until dawn if they want but the hot food places cannot?What are the reasons the police and the council give for there being more problems with customers who want hot food as opposed to cold food.After all I expect the area still needs to be policed. What is needed is for one of the hot food shops to apply to amend their licencing hours and then for the matter to be debated.

I agree about fairness - but that would be a perfect world - we don't live in a perfect world where all is fair.

 

Answer this one - when play / fusion / saxtys have a 3am licence how come mamma jammers is open till 4am?

[Aylestone Voice]

Because that is what they asked for??

[Colin James]

Because that is what they asked for??

 

Correct, any nightclub can apply for longer hours as in Mamma Jammas case but this is not about nightclubs or nightclubs serving food this is about food establishments not being able to serve hot food after 1.30am in Hereford.

[Biomech]

I have to pop out now so I'll be brief...

 

I still go out occasionally, so my information is not out dated. The last time I was in Play I saw in excess of 50 people thrown out for fights that were occuring about once every 10-15 minutes. One girl was knocked out on the dance floor by another girl and was carried outside.

As I say, I work late, and often see fights immediately outside Play nightclub sometimes spilling into the roads stopping traffic. Colin will correct me if I'm wrong, but many door staff are responsible for their patch, once it's gone outside their area, they don't tend to get involved.

 

I don't care what figures say, in my experience, current experience, fights have increased - to the point where I often avoid Play and prefer somewhere like the Jailhouse with its "pillheads" because the people are far ore pleasant.

 

The Jailhouse has done a fantastic job with the drug problem, but it is a favourite haunt for drug takers because of their open mindset, and many people take drugs before entering (as with Play I imagine).

 

In regards to food, the temperature bears no impact on violence levels - unless you're taking a steaming pasty to the side of the face.

 

Supermarkets aren't "cheap", they are "cheaper" because the cost of going out, between increased alcohol prices in pubs to extortionate taxi fares.

 

Again, I speak from experience and observation. We all know how easy it is to skew police figures. 20,000 public order offences in a week sounds bad, until you find out 19,995 of them were for someone spitting on the floor.

[Roger]

So - should my tax's going on policing budgets till 5am so the kebab shops can stay open till 4am?

 

Cops working with the council - madness I say, who would want those two authorities working together for a safer city.

 

Ive picked up over time that you are an ex cop? Just out of interest what rank did you get to? ( I honestly dont know the answer to that question, just trying to understand your knowledge level ) 

 

That is a bit of an off topic fishing trip really ...

 

But I will attempt to answer your post in the context of this thread:

 

1. Should the budget cover late night opening? I think it should. The cops should be serving the reasonable Public requirements as opposed to the rules being artificially bent so that the Public businesses are basically serving the demands of the cops.

 

2. How long have you got about the cops/Council links ... ? Too numerous have migrated to the Council to mention. I'm sure there's a secret tunnel! 

 

3. I am an ex cop. I was a Constable in the City Centre team btw 1998 and 2009. I left because I retired. I think your notion of linking knowledge level to rank is a bit insulting to be honest. The current Licensing Officer for the cops is a retired Constable who is doing the job as a Civilian. That is no secret. His press comments are all over the internet in his Official capacity. I'm sure he has far more qualifications/knowledge in that area to complete that role than many people of a higher rank who possibly haven't got much street experience as they are on some sort of other path. I'm sure he may have to temper his decisions tho because of the wider script that is obviously written with the budget in mind.

[stupidfrustration]

That is a bit of an off topic fishing trip really ...

 

But I will attempt to answer your post in the context of this thread:

 

1. Should the budget cover late night opening? I think it should. The cops should be serving the reasonable Public requirements as opposed to the rules being artificially bent so that the Public businesses are basically serving the demands of the cops.

 

2. How long have you got about the cops/Council links ... ? Too numerous have migrated to the Council to mention. I'm sure there's a secret tunnel! 

 

3. I am an ex cop. I was a Constable in the City Centre team btw 1998 and 2009. I left because I retired. I think your notion of linking knowledge level to rank is a bit insulting to be honest. The current Licensing Officer for the cops is a retired Constable who is doing the job as a Civilian. That is no secret. His press comments are all over the internet in his Official capacity. I'm sure he has far more qualifications/knowledge in that area to complete that role than many people of a higher rank who possibly haven't got much street experience as they are on some sort of other path. I'm sure he may have to temper his decisions tho because of the wider script that is obviously written with the budget in mind.

 

Roger

 

Although I find many of your posts frustrating, I think I agree with almost all of the above, except point 1.

Point 3 - I accept what you say about rank and "on the ground knowledge" and I apologize.

 

Back to point 1 - because 50 people want to eat hot food in a place that is not Play/Fusion/Saxtys at 2am, they should supply more police and my and in fact your taxes should pay for that?

 

We already pay higher rates/council tax than Westminster - but you think it should be more as a few people want a kebab late at night?

 

Cant agree with you there!

 

But I will take back the insinuation re the rank you achieved and knowledge level. 

[stupidfrustration]

I have to pop out now so I'll be brief...

 

I still go out occasionally, so my information is not out dated. The last time I was in Play I saw in excess of 50 people thrown out for fights that were occuring about once every 10-15 minutes. One girl was knocked out on the dance floor by another girl and was carried outside.

As I say, I work late, and often see fights immediately outside Play nightclub sometimes spilling into the roads stopping traffic. Colin will correct me if I'm wrong, but many door staff are responsible for their patch, once it's gone outside their area, they don't tend to get involved.

 

I don't care what figures say, in my experience, current experience, fights have increased - to the point where I often avoid Play and prefer somewhere like the Jailhouse with its "pillheads" because the people are far ore pleasant.

 

The Jailhouse has done a fantastic job with the drug problem, but it is a favourite haunt for drug takers because of their open mindset, and many people take drugs before entering (as with Play I imagine).

 

In regards to food, the temperature bears no impact on violence levels - unless you're taking a steaming pasty to the side of the face.

 

Supermarkets aren't "cheap", they are "cheaper" because the cost of going out, between increased alcohol prices in pubs to extortionate taxi fares.

 

Again, I speak from experience and observation. We all know how easy it is to skew police figures. 20,000 public order offences in a week sounds bad, until you find out 19,995 of them were for someone spitting on the floor.

 

Biomech

 

I go out, and I visit pretty much every club in town over the course of my nights out on the drink, and I dont see the issues in Play that you talk about, in fact, I dont see them in Saxtys, Mamma Jammers or Fusion either, the drugs in Jailhouse, not as much as there used to be, but yes there still are the occasional issues there.

 

I think what you say about food is wrong, in fact I think I have made my thoughts pretty clear on that, in fact go to pretty much any big town of a night, something like Leon Oldman mentioned earlier and go have a look at 2/3/4am in these places and come back and tell me if you think its a good thing or a bad thing.

 

People loitering, fights occurring and mess on the streets.

 

Once again, Im pro business, but I do understand the issue.

 

I also get your point about police figures, but thats the same all over the country - as the instructions change on how to record issues, the figures will change too.

[stupidfrustration]

Colin will correct me if I'm wrong, but many door staff are responsible for their patch, once it's gone outside their area, they don't tend to get involved.

 

Isnt that a bad thing?

 

Surely doorstaff that have the ability to stop fights would want to, as in, just being human, want to use their knowledge to stop issues within the line of sight of their premises?

 

I would hope that pubs and clubs instruct their doorstaff to stop things if they can AROUND their venues.

[Biomech]

I think what you say about food is wrong, in fact I think I have made my thoughts pretty clear on that, 

 

 

You have certainly made it clear that you don;t agree with me, and that's fine. But you haven't said why. Do you think the temperature of food makes a difference to levels of violence? How? Do you think it's fair that cold food shops are allowed to open yet hot food shops aren't?

 

I mean lets talk about dispersion, staggered closing times for pubs reduces large congregations of people. Likewise, give 5,000 people only 3 places to eat and you're going to get more problems than spreading those same people across 5 - 10 places to eat.

 

I absolutely agree with Roger in that the police are here for - and paid to - serve the public. NOT for society to bend and change according to police rotas and budgets. 

 

As for the fights, I only speak from experience. I can list the last 5 fights I've seen in town, all of them were outside or inside Play. I haven't seen a fight in mamma jammas for, well since it was mamma jammas, the jailhouse I also have not seen a fight for a very long time. Saxty's occasionally outside. Fusion, you probably don't get enough people there for a fight :P I counted 30 people in there once on a Saturday night :P

[Colin James]

Colin will correct me if I'm wrong, but many door staff are responsible for their patch, once it's gone outside their area, they don't tend to get involved.

 

Isnt that a bad thing?

 

Surely doorstaff that have the ability to stop fights would want to, as in, just being human, want to use their knowledge to stop issues within the line of sight of their premises?

 

I would hope that pubs and clubs instruct their doorstaff to stop things if they can AROUND their venues.

 

As a doorman we are licensed to manage the pub/club that were working, however, many of us do not work for these pubs/clubs quite often we work for independent security companies who provide licensed SIA security personnel.

 

I often worked in the Litten Tree (Yates)the majority of pubs/clubs are all linked via radio to a pub watch scheme, so for example if a big fights kicks off in the pub next door (Hop Pole)generally we would go and assist and visa versa, where it changes is when a fight carries on onto the public highway/footpath, then we have to be very careful, we can again assist if someone is in serious danger but at that point the police are usually on their way.

 

But let me add one more thing, in over 16 years big fights are few and far between, especially if you have good door staff, the idea in my experience is to spot trouble BEFORE it starts, prevention is better than cure.

[Colin James]

You have certainly made it clear that you don;t agree with me, and that's fine. But you haven't said why. Do you think the temperature of food makes a difference to levels of violence? How? Do you think it's fair that cold food shops are allowed to open yet hot food shops aren't?

 

I mean lets talk about dispersion, staggered closing times for pubs reduces large congregations of people. Likewise, give 5,000 people only 3 places to eat and you're going to get more problems than spreading those same people across 5 - 10 places to eat.

 

I absolutely agree with Roger in that the police are here for - and paid to - serve the public. NOT for society to bend and change according to police rotas and budgets. 

 

As for the fights, I only speak from experience. I can list the last 5 fights I've seen in town, all of them were outside or inside Play. I haven't seen a fight in mamma jammas for, well since it was mamma jammas, the jailhouse I also have not seen a fight for a very long time. Saxty's occasionally outside. Fusion, you probably don't get enough people there for a fight :P I counted 30 people in there once on a Saturday night :P

 

I completely agree, I work hard all week and pay my taxes, so in my opinion, if I want to go out to a nightclub and leave at 2am, I should also be able to decide if I would like to have a Chinese, Indian or Kebab before I retire home. If there happens to be any trouble then the police should deal with this as they would any other incident but you have more chance of seeing a fight kick off outside a pub or supermarket rather than some Indian restaurant in my experience.

[Roger]

Biomech

 

 

People loitering, fights occurring and mess on the streets.

 

Purely down to pubs/Clubs serving people till they fall over. The Authorities don't want to/can't afford to clear up the mess from the places they have authorised to issue the Mess. 

[chrisbull]

Just noticed Mr Chips is open the Easter weekend till 4 am.So why are they allowed to open till that time.

[Roger]

Just noticed Mr Chips is open the Easter weekend till 4 am.So why are they allowed to open till that time.

 

There is a Govt. exemption that takes precedence over local authorities for Special Events like New Years Eve ... I don't know the exhaustive list but Easter is obviously one of them ... 

[Colin James]

Just noticed Mr Chips is open the Easter weekend till 4 am.So why are they allowed to open till that time.

 

Ooo that's good I wonder if any of the others take-aways are open later this weekend? Anyone know?

[Cambo]

I would have to say I agree with stupidfrustraition

Back when the ip sisters was open poor mr ip would regularly have to intervene because of drunken people fighting & abusing his wife.same used to happen when the crystal rooms was open in the takeaways down bridge st.

so unfortunately when you have a lot of people who have been drinking heavily late @ nite it is often accompanied with some sort of disorder too!

Although I don't think it should be left to one security firm to do the job as that would creat a monopoly in my opinion?!

[M. Preece]

I would have to say I agree with stupidfrustraition

Back when the ip sisters was open poor mr ip would regularly have to intervene because of drunken people fighting & abusing his wife.same used to happen when the crystal rooms was open in the takeaways down bridge st.

so unfortunately when you have a lot of people who have been drinking heavily late @ nite it is often accompanied with some sort of disorder too!

Although I don't think it should be left to one security firm to do the job as that would creat a monopoly in my opinion?!

 

Yes but this was back in the days when most of the clubs in Hereford all closed at the same time 1am!! So everyone would come out at the same time from the various establishments. Read through the various replies, because since the licensing laws were relaxed this is no longer the case and there is no mass exodus of people like there used to be years ago.

 

They don't stop football matches taking place do they! It's the same principle, masses of people and you will often have trouble. 

 

You will always have weekend youngsters having the odd feud or fight that's just human nature after a few drinks, but to prevent these traders being able to stay open is totally wrong in my opinion, most of these places only tick over during the week and rely on their weekend trade. My son lives in St Owen St and rarely does he see big problems at night.

 

Back to the other comment made, it's okay then to buy cold food but not hot??? 

[Colin James]

Sorry - Seagulls are just another of my frustrations! Not THE ONLY frustration, and no, they are not the real issue here, but they are part of the by product of late night food houses.

 

As with the new University, there at long last appears to be some joined up thinking by the powers that be with this city, and I think in the next few years this city will change for the better.

 

You cannot lay the blame at late night food houses! How the hell did you arrive at that comment?

 

Tesco's sell sandwiches and rolls, there are a few coffee carts in the city centre open all day long, people throwing empty packets on the floor,  McDonalds, chip shops, garages, sorry, but I think you have clearly discriminated against take-away's and restaurants here and late night ones too, according to your comments, well not too late eh as they all have to close before 1.30am...come on!