Roger Posted July 31, 2014 Report Posted July 31, 2014 Yeah. Saw that ... The one comment from Hereford Voice has got a +7 rating ... The place is the old M&G wine shop that did change hands and the last time I went in it was run by some bloke from India/Pakistan. I found it had a poor choice of booze and was over priced. Plus he didn't take cards - only cash. Big mistake that as many people routinely don't carry cash. This includes me. I think the fella might well have been struggling to make that business viable as an off licence. There is hardly enough room in there to swing a cat so best of luck with making it into a duel food outlet. Regarding the door staff ... Does the Golden Galleon (bang right next door) have to provide door staff? If not then this applicant is not operating on a level playing field.
Bilbobobby Posted August 1, 2014 Report Posted August 1, 2014 To assist The shop is still owned by the same man who runs it as an off licence. His intention is to close the off licence and re open as a take away. A couple of facts - The applicant applied for a 0130hrs close time - he did not want to go later.. (I asked him) As the applicant agreed the police representations, the police did not attend the hearing (I found the decision via this forum as the council web site is not up to date) The police did NOT object to the application and purely sought to apply conditions to promote the licensing objectives The police did NOT ask for door staff on a Friday and Saturday night - they asked for door staff on a 'risk assessed basis' - those with a little bit of knowledge regarding risk assessments will understand what this means The decison to require door staff as a matter of course was that of the committee I know that if other applications come in for similar venues in the city centre and especially within the CIZ (see previous post to understand what this means), the police will look at the application on a case by case process and will make necessary representations. It would be highly unlikely that the police would ask for door staff as a matter of course - and would seek the risk assessment process The decison of the committee can be challenged through an appeal to the magistrates court by the council as they objected to the application. They have 21 days to do this. It would be wrong to undermine the appeal process by discussing this recent application in too much detail..
Roger Posted August 1, 2014 Report Posted August 1, 2014 When did the owner become an expert in selling pizza's? My gut feeling is this will fall flat on it's arse ....
megilleland Posted August 31, 2014 Report Posted August 31, 2014 Feeling aggro? Have a kebab They may play havoc with your cholesterol, but according to one lawyer the nation's favourite drunken snack prevents violence and stops house fires
Roger Posted August 31, 2014 Report Posted August 31, 2014 Feeling aggro? Have a kebab They may play havoc with your cholesterol, but according to one lawyer the nation's favourite drunken snack prevents violence and stops house fires Dundee ... Same story but some facts' ... I found that guardian article lacking in locations and detail! Daily Record
stupidfrustration Posted September 1, 2014 Report Posted September 1, 2014 Amazing what FACTS you can come up with if you have time on your hands. Here are a couple of other "nuggets" 1) 6 late night eateries are open ( from the commercial down to shake and stir ) all employing people spreading out the customers 2) crime and disorder is considerably down in the night time economy Where we are is not a bad place to be.
Roger Posted September 1, 2014 Report Posted September 1, 2014 Amazing what FACTS you can come up with if you have time on your hands. Here are a couple of other "nuggets" 1) 6 late night eateries are open ( from the commercial down to shake and stir ) all employing people spreading out the customers 2) crime and disorder is considerably down in the night time economy Where we are is not a bad place to be. Not sure what point you are making here ... If you let the take outs open later you would spread it out even further .... ?
stupidfrustration Posted September 1, 2014 Report Posted September 1, 2014 My point was that some smart lawyer created some "facts" about Kebabs reducing domestic violence - thats a load of rubbish - just a smart lawyer winning a case on the day with someone that doesnt know his backside from his funny bone. My point is - the system in Hereford is currently working for the good of the town. The point about the take outs spreading it out even more - well my thoughts are all over this thread as to why I think that would not work in the long run. I know my views are not agreed with, but thats where I am.
Roger Posted September 1, 2014 Report Posted September 1, 2014 I do agree that Hereford is not Dundee ... So no real comparison ... !!! This debate will hopefully run a bit further yet! .... !!!
Colin James Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Posted September 12, 2014 I had a taxi home with Mr Singh today, he owns the 'M & G County Wines' off licence in Commercial Road and he was telling me about his hot food application (see this thread). He originally wanted to be able to sell hot food until 4am and Mr Mooney (police licensing officer) advised him that he would need to go to court to apply for those hours but not to waste his money... Mr Singh suggested selling the food in a cold format and he could heat it in an oven for customers and was told NO he could not offer that service, NO HOT FOOD after 1.30am, like me he questioned what's the difference between selling hot or cold food and he went on to say a lot of people only buy cold food because they have no alternative. Mr Singh also explained that the guy who owns 'Munchies' also wants the same hours. I explained about HV and advised him to look and/or register on here and quite a few members would support him in his quest. Now we have 2 establishments that are keen to be able to sell hot food with longer opening hours...
Roger Posted September 12, 2014 Report Posted September 12, 2014 I think Mr. Singh's stuff is vastly overpriced ... another topic entirely ... but selling cold food heated in an oven and trying to pass it off as 'cold food' is not the way around Jim Mooney ... Or anyone for that matter ... I think I need to have a chat with Jim to get to the bottom of this ...Unlikely as I don't go out in Hereford often to socialise ... I worked with him for years and I think he must have been assimilated into this idea that all the aggro is caused by chips and kebabs ...
Colin James Posted September 13, 2014 Author Report Posted September 13, 2014 I think Mr. Singh's stuff is vastly overpriced ... another topic entirely ... but selling cold food heated in an oven and trying to pass it off as 'cold food' is not the way around Jim Mooney ... Or anyone for that matter ... I think I need to have a chat with Jim to get to the bottom of this ...Unlikely as I don't go out in Hereford often to socialise ... I worked with him for years and I think he must have been assimilated into this idea that all the aggro is caused by chips and kebabs ... I agree, I think Mr Singh was just challenging the silly hot vs cold issue in a sarcastic manner. I also agree that Jim has been assimilated into this idea that all the aggro is caused by chips and kebabs. I have worked on the doors in Commercial Road for many years and as I keep repeating, since they relaxed licensing laws and the days of mass exoduses from clubs at 1am are long gone. But I do agree with Mr Singh on the issue of hot vs cold, in general, most people when they leave a club are starving and just want to eat, they only buy cold food as that is the only option available!!
Alex Posted September 13, 2014 Report Posted September 13, 2014 Discrimination! Mr Singh and Mr Chips cannot open but the Lunchbox can, absolutely ridiculas! Unfair too in my opinion. So are you more aggressive after you have eaten a kebab than you are after eating a beef roll? NO!! Because all you want to do after a few beers topped up with food is sleep in my experience. Jim Mooney has been doing this job far too long and either needs to get into the 21st century or hand the reins over to a younger person.
stupidfrustration Posted September 13, 2014 Report Posted September 13, 2014 It's not discrimination - if MR Singh and MR chips want to stay open later they could right now by serving cold food. I think the term discrimination is the wrong word to use here
Paul Jones Posted September 13, 2014 Report Posted September 13, 2014 It's not discrimination - if MR Singh and MR chips want to stay open later they could right now by serving cold food. I think the term discrimination is the wrong word to use here Well he would like to serve cold food, just tell him not to heat it up but this is a pi*% take on behalf of the local council in my opinion. Red tape and lots of it! Like a previous member has said, Jim Mooney and his colleagues need to get into the 21st century, no wonder people choose to go to other towns, how crap for the young people who go out in Hereford and have been working hard all week. But it's okay to go and have a hot pasty from the garage, in my book, thats discrimination!
Colin James Posted September 13, 2014 Author Report Posted September 13, 2014 Well he would like to serve cold food, just tell him not to heat it up but this is a pi*% take on behalf of the local council in my opinion. Red tape and lots of it! Like a previous member has said, Jim Mooney and his colleagues need to get into the 21st century, no wonder people choose to go to other towns, how crap for the young people who go out in Hereford and have been working hard all week. But it's okay to go and have a hot pasty from the garage, in my book, thats discrimination! I am with you Paul on this one.
megilleland Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 Regulatory Sub Committee Tuesday 23 September 2014 12.00 pm 1. Application for the Grant of a Premises Licence in respect of Wok & Rice, 59b Commercial Road, Hereford, HR1 2BP ANNEX 1- SPECIAL CUMULATIVE IMPACT POLICY attached for reference. Herefordshire Council Regulatory Sub-Committee Decision Notice (Licensing Act 2003) (dated 2nd September 2014) The Sub-Committee has decided to defer the determination of this application to give the applicants appropriate time to liaise with the Licensing Authority and West Mercia Police. This time shall be used to determine what conditions or procedures could be put in place by the applicants to ensure that they do not add to the cumulative impact of the area.The application shall be heard by this Sub-Committee within 21 days of this hearing date. Application Form (no date visible but applicant wanted licence to start 17th June 2014) Representation made by the Local Authority (no date) Police representation (7th July 2014) Looks like these applications take a long time when we know what the decision wil be.
Roger Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 'In effect there is nothing within this application which satisfies the authority how the applicant intends to reduce the impact of this premises within this area and therefore the application should be refused' Quote above from the Council ... The premises could never reduce anything. It would start off at a neutral position and then may attract a dropped piece of litter ... or a call of some sort about something ... I think Mr. Singh is probably not up to speed with the Council Expectations ... Police letter seemed verging on reasonable! Not convinced SIA bouncers would be needed ...
megilleland Posted October 6, 2014 Report Posted October 6, 2014 Regulatory Sub Committee Monday 13 October 2014 12.00 pm 5. Application for the Grant of a Premises Licence under the Licensing Act 2003 in respect of Wok & Rice., 59b Commercial Road, Hereford, HR1 2BP The Licensing Authority object to the application in full. Whilst we are aware that the police have not objected to the application, nevertheless the authority must object to it as it is within the heart of the area of the City covered by the Special Policy (Cumulative Impact Policy). It is unable to see any reason why the authority should divert from this policy. . . and Should the committee wish to override their current policy then the Licensing Authority recommend that the following conditions should be attached to the licence. . .
Aylestone Voice Posted October 6, 2014 Report Posted October 6, 2014 It really is sad that the Council's own Officers are so fixated with what is a redundant policy that they cannot take a flexible approach. Are they not able to think for themselves (rhetorical!). The Police are happy Dear Licensing Officer - For goodness wake up!!
Roger Posted October 6, 2014 Report Posted October 6, 2014 My gut feeling is that the premises is too small for what it's trying to achieve ... I'm no fan of this Impact Zone, which I've mentioned before Maccies on Commercial Street falls outside ..., but the Council seem to trot it out and they quite like it ... Interesting that the Police don't object and they also are fully aware of the CIZ ... It doesn't engender any confidence in the process when you have two different views put forward on an application from two important organisations ...
Roger Posted October 6, 2014 Report Posted October 6, 2014 Slightly off topic as this is Nottingham but I'm sure these sorts of things happen all over the place ... Or might do in the future ... A pub has had to fight a contested case to REDUCE it's closing time from 2 AM to Midnight ... Police objected on grounds of disorder ... Pub is doing it to avoid a 'late night levy' of up to £4,400 a year from The Council ... Nottingham Post
Roger Posted November 28, 2014 Report Posted November 28, 2014 I forgot to mention ... I got stuck in Shrewsbury on 9th November and had a muffin/coffee at the Town Centre Maccies at 4.30 AM ... Open all night ... Why can Shrewsbury accommodate all night food and not Hereford ? Seems to me that the local official cliques have their own ingrained mindset ...
K.Butt Posted November 30, 2014 Report Posted November 30, 2014 Regulatory Sub Committee Monday 13 October 2014 12.00 pm 5. Application for the Grant of a Premises Licence under the Licensing Act 2003 in respect of Wok & Rice., 59b Commercial Road, Hereford, HR1 2BP The Licensing Authority object to the application in full. Whilst we are aware that the police have not objected to the application, nevertheless the authority must object to it as it is within the heart of the area of the City covered by the Special Policy (Cumulative Impact Policy). It is unable to see any reason why the authority should divert from this policy. . . and Should the committee wish to override their current policy then the Licensing Authority recommend that the following conditions should be attached to the licence. . . Of course it in within the heart of the City, this is the main road!! Hence why they opened there! So this area is covered by this 'Cumulative Impact Policy' and they were also worried about the queues going into Yates, what the hell? So how do other cities manage then with one pub next to another? Hereford Council are so out of touch and just look at any reason to object. If this applicant had applied for a licence anywhere else, ie Eign Road or Whitecross Road, then they would of refused or put more restrictions in place being in a residential area, you can't win..
Roger Posted November 30, 2014 Report Posted November 30, 2014 So this area is covered by this 'Cumulative Impact Policy' and they were also worried about the queues going into Yates, what the hell? So how do other cities manage then with one pub next to another? Hereford Council are so out of touch and just look at any reason to object. If this applicant had applied for a licence anywhere else, ie Eign Road or Whitecross Road, then they would of refused or put more restrictions in place being in a residential area, you can't win.. Maccies in Commercial Street got a 4AM application thrown out in 2012. They trade outside the Cumulative Impact Zone ... Link I'm not sure who drew the boundaries of that zone but the rules seem to be massaged to fit the objection ...
megilleland Posted November 30, 2014 Report Posted November 30, 2014 Maccies in Commercial Street got a 4AM application thrown out in 2012. They trade outside the Cumulative Impact Zone ... Link I'm not sure who drew the boundaries of that zone but the rules seem to be massaged to fit the objection ... Taken from the Council's draft licensing document
Roger Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 So what are they capturing with this proposed enlarged zone? Imperial/Saxty's/Exchange are on there ... But Litch/Grapes escaped? Obviously got Maccies ... Must have been forgotten first time ...
Bilbobobby Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 The CIZ is part of the council's Licensing Policy. The CIZ is something requested by the police to deal/manage the concentration of all types of licensed premises and the potential for crime & disorder. The policy is about to go to the council regulatory committee for discussion and hopefully approval. It has been subject to wide public consultation with very little responses received - including any objections to extending the CIZ. Whilst a lot of the eateries are within the CIZ, there is NO blanket policy to prevent hot food being sold later than 0130hrs. What has to be shown by any applicant is how they will promote the licensing objectives through proper management of the venue & how they can show that having the venue open later will NOT impact or undermine the licencing objectives. There is a skill in delivering this - its not the job of a lay person, but of someone who knows licensing law. As at this time no one has applied for a (in the CIZ) late food licence later than 0130hrs. Why? I would hazard a guess there is no real demand for it!
H.Wilson Posted December 4, 2014 Report Posted December 4, 2014 The CIZ is part of the council's Licensing Policy. The CIZ is something requested by the police to deal/manage the concentration of all types of licensed premises and the potential for crime & disorder. The policy is about to go to the council regulatory committee for discussion and hopefully approval. It has been subject to wide public consultation with very little responses received - including any objections to extending the CIZ. Whilst a lot of the eateries are within the CIZ, there is NO blanket policy to prevent hot food being sold later than 0130hrs. What has to be shown by any applicant is how they will promote the licensing objectives through proper management of the venue & how they can show that having the venue open later will NOT impact or undermine the licencing objectives. There is a skill in delivering this - its not the job of a lay person, but of someone who knows licensing law. As at this time no one has applied for a (in the CIZ) late food licence later than 0130hrs. Why? I would hazard a guess there is no real demand for it! That is a slight contradiction, how do you no there is no real demand when nobody can offer food after 0130? Of course there is no demand for hot food after 0130 because its not available! Secondly, there is probably too much red tape and expense to even challenge the councils CIZ policy. The CIZ area is the main area for nightlife, so is this not where people would want to purchase there food after their night out? If this applicant had applied for a licence anywhere else, ie Eign Road or Whitecross Road, then they would of refused or put more restrictions in place being in a residential area, you can't win.. I agree with K.Butt's quote above, if someone applied somewhere outside of the CIZ for late food license the excuse would then be its a residential area... Does anyone know when this policy was first introduced in Hereford?
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