Pinch Point Scheme NOT Working at Traffic Lights!

[ragwert]

Hi,

I can report that at my request Council Highways Officers have spoken to HA and they, Highways Agency, say they are believe that they have to right the sequence on the traffic lights at ASDA roundabout but are monitoring the situation. Apparently the SCOOT system for controlling the traffic lights across the city, had a fault which now too has been put right.

Not wishing to tempt fate but hopefully things will go ok from now on.

Chris Chappell

Chris....I have had discussions with someone from highways regarding the SCOOT system.It is broke and has not worked for more than 10 yrs.

[Colin James]

Drove up Edgar Street yesterday (Southbound) - won't be doing that again for along while.

 

Considering it was a Sunday, traffic was bad but flowing (slowly) until you get to the junction ready to hit those temporary lights. Colin was spot on, they were causing all the delays while the other exits where clear.

 

However, that aside, I found it quite unnerving. joining the roundabout from Edgar Street, at least 3 cars in front of me had to do an emergency brake to avoid being side swiped. 

The problem I was met with was that I wanted to go straight over and towards Ross, according to the lines, this meant I was left lane on Edgar to go into the left of 3 new lanes facing the Tesco bus exit. This makes perfect sense and is not the fault of the people who designed it. It meant that if the left of the 3 lanes coming from my right was clear, I could safely go..... if I dared. As people in the lanes approaching from the right kept sweeping across lanes, from the middle to go down Newmarket Street or from the inside lane to go A49/Ross which meant that I had to sit there until all 3 lanes from the right were clear to avoid potentially being hit. I was fortunate enough to be in a van so had a height advantage to be able to see more clearly. I wouldn't even attempt it in my car.

 

As I say, this is the fault of the drivers not using the lanes as they should.

 

After I took the exit, I was cut up twice within 30metres of leaving the roundabout, the car in front was dangerously cut up and had to emergency brake and the cheeky bastards had the nerve to beep at us!

 

Long story short;

 

I won't be going Edgar Street/North Retail for a while as it's not worth the risk of being crashed into on the way back.

 

Please put a police car on the roundabout so people pay more attention to their driving. I've said many times that turning the lights off is a good idea but will (initially until people get used to it) result in dangerous driving due to people driving selfishly and erratically. It's only a matter of time before someone causes an accident and we know how gridlocked the city becomes then

 

I will be happy when they have completed the lane guidance all the way around the island. I was in the middle lane wanting to go across to Belmont, there was a car in the BRAND NEW right hand lane which clearly states for A438 (Brecon or Whitecross Road) or to come back around the roundabout totally, however, as we approached Tesco's this car on my right decided to cut back across in front of me and continued towards the bridge, he actually ended up going to Tesco at Belmont! So I am hoping it will be better once the lane guidance is complete but time will tell. It's not the fault of the lines it's the DRIVERS! I agree a police presence for a while would help, even if that means handing out tickets!

[Biomech]

That's why I think they need to sit a patrol car on there, so at least it gives people an incentive to think about what they are doing as well as eyes on for the inivitable accidents

[twowheelsgood]

Chris....I have had discussions with someone from highways regarding the SCOOT system.It is broke and has not worked for more than 10 yrs.

It was controlled from Worcester - I believe Herefordshire Council wouldn't pay for software upgrades some years ago and the whole thing has died, so broke is probably correct. Don't forget the A49 is Highways Agency, not this Council, so perhaps they have their own system just for Asda/Edgar St. I saw three men in high viz peering into the control cabinet in the middle of the Asda roundabout last week ...

[Biomech]

Why is it called a "pinch point"? Surely when you pinch something you're condensing it, compressing it - essentially forcing more into a smaller space?

 

Unless they mean they are literally "pinching" our travel time for themselves

[megilleland]

Why is it called a "pinch point"? Surely when you pinch something you're condensing it, compressing it - essentially forcing more into a smaller space?

 

Unless they mean they are literally "pinching" our travel time for themselves

 

The works were done to relieve the pinch points.

[Biomech]

Quote

The works were done to relieve the pinch points.

 

Ah ok, in that case, I just think it's a silly name :P I hadn't heard those 3 places been termed "pinch points" until they started publishing them as "pinch point schemes". Fair enough.

Somewhere recently I posted about a yellow box on the OLM roundabout - I was right, they have made the yellow box cover more than the one lane that it did before. And yes, this means that if you're coming around from Steels you can't see if the other side is clear - ultimately, people are going into this yellow box and then releasing they have no where to go, thus creating a slight blockage.

[ragwert]

The works were done to relieve the pinch points.

They actually made a pinch point instead.If there are more than five cars waiting to turn into Asda then traffic backs up preventing cars being able to use the right hand lane to Belmont Road.

[ragwert]

I would love to know how it cost over qtr million pounds to do the pinch point works at the Asda Islands

[Colin James]

I would love to know how it cost over qtr million pounds to do the pinch point works at the Asda Islands

 

So would I... 

[ragwert]

So would I... 

An FOI with detailed costings ?

[Biomech]

I wouldn't be surprised if a FOI found out the works only cost £20.00 and that the rest of the money accounted for fixing problems and was listed under something else :P

[megilleland]

Are Hereford Council offering traffic consultancy to Coventry?

 

From Coventry Telegraph:

By Georgia Arlott, 6 Mar 2014 16:10

 

Workers say it takes two hours to get off industrial estate because of Tollbar Island roadworks

 

"One Volvo worker of the tailbacks at Siskin Drive. Paul Dunn, 57, a parts supervisor at Volvo, said: “It just beggars belief - it takes literally two hours to get off the estate.

 

“We fully understand that what the Highways Agency are doing to ‘suicide island’ will be brilliant.

 

“I just don’t think they realise how big this estate is, and the works will go on for three years.

 

“If you leave the office at 5pm, it takes at least an hour to join the roundabout - it would normally take me ten minutes.â€

 

The problems are becoming so bad that bosses who work on the estate are having to change staff shift patterns to cope.

 

Maybe they should have a site visit to the Edgar Street roundabout to see how they can speed up everything to a standstill!

[John Harrington]

I completely agree with the school of thought that the fairly recent issue of northbound congestion at the top of Edgar St and Newton Rd is likely to be caused by traffic being held on the Steels/Tesco roundabout until a 'wave' is released at once, not unlike the first corner on any Formula One track, causing the bottleneck which seems to begin alongside the Courtyard Theatre.

Cllr Chappell, with respect, goodwill as a principle of road use does work. That is why we manage to pull over, flash, wave, wink and smile to other drivers as we let them by and vice versa on country lanes and other roads which have no traffic controls. This very same principle works wonderfully well in the urban environs of Poynton and Portishead in the UK and Bohmte and Drachten on the continent are testament to the principle of unregulated roads working superbly well in practice, with a reduction in congestion and an enormous reduction in accidents (the issue of accidents being something, you explained to me in person, prevented you from supporting the idea of a lights out trails.

Once again, with respect, I don't think you know what you're talking about Councillor. I don't know what I'm talking about either but Colin and I and many others (this idea is not unique or something we take individual credit for) are prepared to look at and evaluate the professional opinion of people who are more qualified than us to consider this issue. Keith Firth of SKM Transport believes removing lights from the A49 Central Corridor would work but he needs to complete a micro simulation first to gauge the risks and potential for success. The Highways Agency are prepared to look at it and have even tentatively suggested they will fund the micro simulation which may or may not be followed up with a real live trial. Jesse Norman supports the idea of a trial. The IOC supports the idea of a trial. The list goes on.

The only people who seem to oppose the idea are certain councillors like yourself who believe your public service grants you the right to make sweeping, definitive statements about subjects you obviously haven't researched fully. And further believe you view is paramount. I'm afraid it is not. Once again, neither is mine. So lets look to the actual professionals, give them the input we Hereford road users have as daily users of our wretched city roads and see what we can achieve. First micro simulation (as used at Poynton) and then a trial. Lets give it a go. It costs Herefordshire Council absolutely zilch to agree to begin the process.

I am surprised at the lack of enthusiasm generally for this idea from councillors. Do they not have eyes and ears? Do they not know how much traffic dominates our lives and affects the way the city works. Rather than telling us we're so lucky we're not in Worcester or Birmingham were the traffic jams are worse, pull your fingers out and look for solutions for your constituents!

Right better go, traffic is moving again on Edgar St!

[Biomech]

Quote

That is why we manage to pull over, flash, wave, wink and smile to other drivers as we let them by and vice versa on country lanes and other roads which have no traffic controls.

 

AHA! The cat is out of the bag! You're not from Hereford at all are you. No. The people of Hereford have difficulty using their indicators let alone raising a few fingers of thanks.

You know why Barrs Court Road is never blocked with traffic? Because you can't get out at the Aylestone end, consequently, everyone who knows better avoids it. Now replicate that across town and you have a city that people avoid. The exception being the A49 because it's the only road from one side of the city to the other.

I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way, the Maylord exit lights off have been a great success. 

[John Harrington]

Ha ha, fair one Biomech, not a city boy but as a Kingstone boy who works for Fedex I do have to sit in traffic every afternoon on Edgar st on my way back to Worcester (home of the HUGE traffic jams according to some esteemed cllrs).

Yes I noticed the Maylords Lights Out working wonderfully well. Frustrating that the council doesn't feel inclined to try more of the same elsewhere. It would seem if it's not their idea or serving a particular purpose they have an interest in it difficult for them to explore alternatives to issues like road congestions. It may simply be they all want and believe in a bypass (something I'm not personally against) and don't want anything solving the problem before a bypass does (if it does, if it's built and if the thousands of extra houses Bloor want in exchange for funding a Western route doesn't block it up immediately with more traffic).

[John Harrington]

Back to the valid point you made at the heart of your little ribbing Biomech, I think goodwill would work in a city environment. It does work in cities where it lights have been removed. I the problem with having a system like we currently have in Hereford, which is a mixture of lights like Steels Roundabout and uncontrolled junctions, like the Barrs Ct onto Aylestone Hill,is that we accept that lights control our movements and while we waiting fuming for our red light to go green we're very reluctant to let other vehicles join the queue because (a) we've become bloody spiteful in the 3 mins we've been completely stationary (b) if we let someone out we're worried we may miss our chance to go while the lights are green.

No lights, I think, would remove this artificial stop and go control, would make us more relaxed, kinder to fellow travellers and even more accepting of jams when they did occur because we would know the lights didn't cause the congestion. Hamilton-Baillie said there is still congestion on busy roads/junctions when lights are removed but vehicles tend to keep moving at slow speeds rather than stop and start. And the waiting times in traffic are reduced in peak congestion times because traffic takes longer to back up and disperses quicker.

A lot of this is if and buts and varied personal opinion. What we need is some experts (traffic engineers outside of the Highways Agency) to look at it with the Council's blessing to see if it would work. The HA is willing to look, our MP is willing to look, the City Council is willing to look... we just need to get Herefordshire Council to say, 'o.k. let the experts have a look, what can we do to help?'.

[Biomech]

I think it will work as well, but there is going to be a long adjustment period.At the start people will just be forcing their vehicles around, sitting in yellow boxes and running red lights as they do so often now.

 

Most of this is due to the fact that if you don't force, push and race, it means you're going to be stuck for even longer because you know that just around the corner is further gridlock. I know I've certainly given a big "f*** you" to other road users because "well I've been sitting here for 20 minutes and only moved 10 meters" or "this is the 6th change of these lights and I still haven't go out".

If people knew that around the corner the traffic was flowing well, they would be more incline to let people out of junctions. Because right now, being polite adds to your misery, adds to your delays and adds to your time. Letting people out in front of you just compounds these problems because of the tragic state of the traffic. 

Once the traffic is clear and flowing, letting people out will make little to no difference to a journey.

[John Harrington]

Agreed, being polite in current traffic gets you stuffed! I still occasionally let people through, being a typical white van man, famous for their courtesy and helpful advice to other road users!

Ps. If anyone does get stuck going north on Edgar St it's always much quicker to shoot down Blackfriars, down Widemarsh Road and round to the left onto Newton to join again by Pizza Hut. Much much quicker. Cutting through Merton Meadow even quicker again! Not that I do that.

[dippyhippy]

Ha Ha!

I had a taxi driver who took precisely that route a few weeks ago!

I was a tad confused when he turned off into Merton Meadow,,,,but it was a much quicker journey than I anticipated, so I was well chuffed!

[ragwert]

Well the lights at Newmarket roundabout are now working a treat but why did it take an e-mail by me to the Highways agency to get the SCOOT fault fixed.I'm sure Herefordshire Council pays something like £12,000 a year for its upkeep.

On another note has anyone seen the new traffic lights in Blackfriars Street? Noway do they need to be installed there,idiots