Advice: Parking and penalty notices on private land

[Colin James]

Have you ever had a penalty charge notice placed on your car windscreen for parking in a Supermarket, KFC or private car park by some company who attempts to claim money from you by making these invoices look like some sort of parking ticket?

 

I hate these SCAMMERS! Because in my opinion that is what they are, so I have decided to put together some articles and advice on what to do if you have a speculative invoice placed onto your car windscreen and links to various other sites offering similar advice.

 

It is down to YOU, whether you decide to accept this advice but at the very least it will give you options that you may not thought were available. 

 

I recently won my appeal to POPLA against Corporate Services Parking Management, you can read the whole article and various comments in the topic 'Should I Pay A Private Parking Ticket'

 

[Colin James]

The following article was taken from Martin Lewis's website moneysavingexpert and there is loads of advice on their forums

 

If you get an unfair ticket in a private car park, don't automatically pay it. These supposed 'fines' handed out are merely invoices, often unenforceable, and it's a Wild West out there - many private parking firms are frankly cowboys.

This step-by-step guide shows how to fight unfair private parking tickets at supermarkets, hospitals, retail parks and elsewhere, including using the private parking appeals systems. Out of 23,500 people who appealed via one of these systems in the year to March 2014, 45% were successful.

 

If your ticket isn't from a private firm, see the Council Parking Ticket Appeals guide.

 

Below are a few websites offering advice:

 

Watchdog Video Advice

 

Citizens Advice Bureau

 

PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice

 

The AA

 

British Parking Association

 

Another good article on 'This Is Money' website.

 

Parking Cowboys advice and sample template letter

 

BBC Survivors guide: Parking on private land

 

AppealNow website

 

Penalty Charge Notice Website

 

Which? Consumer Rights

 

Moneysupermarket advice

 

A landmark court case here

 

In short, a private company has no legal basis for issuing another party a penalty or fine. Parking on private land is instead covered by contract law, and the parking company would argue that by displaying signs and parking on their land constitutes a contract between the driver and themselves, assuming that you actually saw their notices in the first instance. The terms of these car parks typically says that if you break it, then you will be issued with a Parking Charge Notice (typically £40 to £100, often with discounts for early payment). However, to be absolutely clear, this is not a fine or a penalty backed by statute. It is more akin to an invoice requesting payment.

 

Don't ever think of private parking tickets as "fines".

They're not. These companies have no official right to fine you, though they may try to make you think they do.

All they're doing is sending you a notice for what they deem to be a breach of contract.

It isn't the ability of private companies to issue tickets in itself that's a problem. It's the unstructured system which puts unnecessary power in potentially unscrupulous hands.

[Bill Thomas]

Thank you Colin for sharing all of this information, this whole industry clearly needs cleaning up. Are the DVLA exempt from giving out our data protection then?

[Adrian Pitt]

Some good advice here and useful links, a lot of this industry is corrupt. 

[Mick]

Thank you Colin for sharing all of this information, this whole industry clearly needs cleaning up. Are the DVLA exempt from giving out our data protection then?

 

They must be, yet if I phone Next Directory to order something for the mrs they will not speak to me. Money speaks eh

[Frank Smith]

Interesting video on watchdog. Thank you for all the information provided it may come in handy one of the days.

[Biomech]

I'd like to add that if you're asked to leave the land and you refuse to, you would be trespassing which, whilst not a criminal offence, is a civil offence for which you can be taken to court

[H.Wilson]

I'd like to add that if you're asked to leave the land and you refuse to, you would be trespassing which, whilst not a criminal offence, is a civil offence for which you can be taken to court

 

That's all that this is, a civil matter and NOT a criminal one.

 

Have a read through this lot

[megilleland]

As a lot of motorists read this topic here, so I thought it would be worth drawing attention to this tax disc change which may catch some people out.

 

Car tax discs end in six weeks but half the country has no idea

 

Tax discs will be abolished on October 1 but of those aware change is ahead, half do not know the exact date

 

The move away from paper discs, after 93 years, is designed to offer motorists more flexible payment options and make it harder for people to evade taxing their cars.

 

Estimates show that the changes could save the taxpayer £10million a year. Car owners will still need to have paid vehicle tax to drive on the roads.

 

But under the new system, the tax will no longer be automatically transferred with a car when it is sold.

 

Sellers are expected to tell the DVLA straight away of the change of ownership or face £1,000 fines.

 

Shane Teskey, from vehicle history check website hpicheck.com, told the Mail: “Those who fail to inform the DVLA, could be fined and they will still be liable for any speeding or parking fines and vehicle tax for a car they don't even own any more.â€

[Biomech]

But under the new system, the tax will no longer be automatically transferred with a car when it is sold.

 

Sellers are expected to tell the DVLA straight away of the change of ownership or face £1,000 fines.

 

 

This is the important bit that's going to trip up a lot of people.

But you know, no information campaign and £1,000 penalties....  easy money

 

[Frank Smith]

I was just reading about these scammers now operating in the new shopping centre.

[Colin James]

I was just reading about these scammers now operating in the new shopping centre.

 

Yes I read this earlier, read my comments on the HT website. The HT event have the title wrong, it is not a ticket and will never will be, it's an invoice and a very dodgy one too! God I hate this scam because that's what it is in my opinion!!

[Roger]

On what basis was the ticket issued ? ... If you have an unattended car in a parking bay you can only know if there are no kids' involved if you see it arrive with no kids' getting out ... Even then you might arrive in a child bay to collect kids' already at the shopping place who need to be driven away ... All seems very complicated there ... Pay to park to shop as well ... I won't be driving there ever! And I live at Aylestone! 

[Colin James]

On what basis was the ticket issued ? ... If you have an unattended car in a parking bay you can only know if there are no kids' involved if you see it arrive with no kids' getting out ... Even then you might arrive in a child bay to collect kids' already at the shopping place who need to be driven away ... All seems very complicated there ... Pay to park to shop as well ... I won't be driving there ever! And I live at Aylestone! 

 

It's not a ticket... the sooner people start to realise this the better. 

[stupidfrustration]

Colin,

 

Can I ask you a question.

 

If you owned a bit of land, lets say a small bit of land in town - in fact - lets take the black lion example.

The car park is for patrons only.

 

You have parked there to pick up your indian ( lovely food by the way at Spices and we have only tried it due to the advert on here ) and you get people who are not patrons of your pub, parking on your land to go shopping, or go to the left bank ( when it opens ) or visit friends who live down that road and your car park is either full because people who are not useing your pub are parking there, so your customers have no room to park or damaged from cars who are not paying into the pub as they are not patrons and as such there is not enough money in the pot to repair the bit of land that you have brought, or even some idiot has parked too close to your fire exit and is now making trading in your pub illegal as you now have a car parked in front of your fire exit and you cant find the owner of the car to move it...........................

 

How would you deal with these people that park on your land?

[Colin James]

Colin,

 

Can I ask you a question.

 

If you owned a bit of land, lets say a small bit of land in town - in fact - lets take the black lion example.

The car park is for patrons only.

 

You have parked there to pick up your indian ( lovely food by the way at Spices and we have only tried it due to the advert on here ) and you get people who are not patrons of your pub, parking on your land to go shopping, or go to the left bank ( when it opens ) or visit friends who live down that road and your car park is either full because people who are not useing your pub are parking there, so your customers have no room to park or damaged from cars who are not paying into the pub as they are not patrons and as such there is not enough money in the pot to repair the bit of land that you have brought, or even some idiot has parked too close to your fire exit and is now making trading in your pub illegal as you now have a car parked in front of your fire exit and you cant find the owner of the car to move it...........................

 

How would you deal with these people that park on your land?

 

 

I think if I was not making enough money from this car park in the week and it bothered me that much enough to prevent people just parking here during the evenings (when it is totally empty) I would install gates or a barrier system but I certainly would not resort to employing scammers with fake looking tickets! 

 

So are you in agreement with these private companies issuing these invoices then?

[K.Butt]

I think if I was not making enough money from this car park in the week and it bothered me that much enough to prevent people just parking here during the evenings (when it is totally empty) I would install gates or a barrier system but I certainly would not resort to employing scammers with fake looking tickets! 

 

So are you in agreement with these private companies issuing these invoices then?

 

I agree with Colin response above, furthermore, a permit for this car park is over £1500 pa, I reckon there are at least 40 spaces so thats £60,000 earner from a piece of land that used to FREE to park on, if you were a tenant of the offices along Bridge St, so these permit charges are an addon since about 2006. Greed comes to mind.

[Colin James]

I agree with Colin response above, furthermore, a permit for this car park is over £1500 pa, I reckon there are at least 40 spaces so thats £60,000 earner from a piece of land that used to FREE to park on, if you were a tenant of the offices along Bridge St, so these permit charges are an addon since about 2006. Greed comes to mind.

 

K.Butt while I partially agree with your reply, please bare in mind that the landlord get NOTHING from the car park management people (from my understanding), this company merely provide all the signs and tell the landlord this will stop people parking here and we will manage that for you for FREE but they just take the money they earn from the people who are daft enough to pay them.

[stupidfrustration]

Not in agreement at all actually - definitely not on the "speculative invoices" - but I do understand that its a way to stop people parking on "my" land.

 

When I say "my" - I wish I had the money to own a bit of land in the centre of Hereford, but how else would we advise land owners to stop people parking on their land.

 

If it were me - and I had worked hard, saved, invested in a bit of land and had people parking on it - I would put signs up and put wheel clamps on them. My personal view - "how dare people" park on my land.

 

If someone actually parked in my driveway - I think I may do something even better.

If you are not allowed to put wheel clamps on peoples cars - I would block them in with another vehicle - perhaps an old banger.

[Roger]

I don't really disagree with owners of private car parks setting out terms and conditions ... But avoiding a Council £3 park all day ticket would probably attract a £60 (or similar) PCN if you never bought a ticket ~ which obviously bears no relation to the revenue lost ... It's just a screwed up system ... Or more likely a system to just kick the arse out of any parking system ... Council have more weapons to enforce the system but it's a revenue stream that is getting the arse kicked out of it ... 

[Alex]

Not in agreement at all actually - definitely not on the "speculative invoices" - but I do understand that its a way to stop people parking on "my" land.

 

When I say "my" - I wish I had the money to own a bit of land in the centre of Hereford, but how else would we advise land owners to stop people parking on their land.

 

If it were me - and I had worked hard, saved, invested in a bit of land and had people parking on it - I would put signs up and put wheel clamps on them. My personal view - "how dare people" park on my land.

 

If someone actually parked in my driveway - I think I may do something even better.

If you are not allowed to put wheel clamps on peoples cars - I would block them in with another vehicle - perhaps an old banger.

 

First of all you cannot clamp a vehicle anymore.

 

If the land owner had any sense, why not just charge a small nominal fee for evenings and weekends. If you could park for 30mins for 50p or 2 hours for £2 I don't think people would mind paying that. In most cases the landlord is not loosing out because during office hours the people who have paid for their permits are using the spaces. My gf  has a permit here and she has never had a problem parking here during office hours and neither have any of her colleagues. This is more about these scammers exploiting people and attempting to charge extortionate prices for parking in the evenings or like in Colin's case a Sunday night, when his was the only vehicle other than a van parked in the car park along the side of the Black Lion pub.

 

If the landlord is really bothered then just put up a gate.

[Biomech]

I think perhaps the problem is the way the enforcement is done.

 

I agree with Stupidfrustration, people are parking on someones land, they have the right to enforce conditions. HOWEVER, threats and impersonating government workers and paperwork is definitely a no no.

 

Perhaps sf wasn't too clear in their example. Perhaps consider that you have a double drive and only use one space and then random strangers parked on your driveway every day - you'd want to do something about it right?

 

I think for me, depending on the purpose of the space (shopping/staff carpark/back of a shop etc), I'd put up a notice and have people towed for trespass for violations.

 

These fake tickets are wrong without a doubt, but a businesses person or landowner has the right to place conditions upon the use of their own land. I'm sure you'll agree

[Bill Thomas]

I think perhaps the problem is the way the enforcement is done.

 

I agree with Stupidfrustration, people are parking on someones land, they have the right to enforce conditions. HOWEVER, threats and impersonating government workers and paperwork is definitely a no no.

 

Perhaps sf wasn't too clear in their example. Perhaps consider that you have a double drive and only use one space and then random strangers parked on your driveway every day - you'd want to do something about it right?

 

I think for me, depending on the purpose of the space (shopping/staff carpark/back of a shop etc), I'd put up a notice and have people towed for trespass for violations.

 

These fake tickets are wrong without a doubt, but a businesses person or landowner has the right to place conditions upon the use of their own land. I'm sure you'll agree

 

I don't think using a double drive scenario is quite the same in fairness, the landlords clearly earn their revenue from the permits during office hours, so a small sensible fee for the evening and weekends I would be in favour of and get rid of the parking management company altogether, either that or put a gate up, the original hinges are still there so it would not take a lot to implement if they are that worried about people parking there out of office hours.Where has all the local generosity gone these days? Why not offer free parking and encourage people to use the local estate agents and shops that have permits here, the permits are not limited to just the surrounding offices.

 

I notice that some supermarkets are now using these idiots too, Morrison's in Hereford is a joke! We called in there yesterday and did some shopping, we got to the check out and was asked if we had parked in the car park, which we had done, she then asked for my ticket to nullify, I told her that we had no ticket and was not aware that we had to get one and where do we get them? She told me to go out and put a pound coin in the machine then come back and she would give me the pound back? What the heck is all that about? Put me off shopping in Morrison's to be honest, what a rigmarole. 

[Paul Jones]

I don't think using a double drive scenario is quite the same in fairness, the landlords clearly earn their revenue from the permits during office hours, so a small sensible fee for the evening and weekends I would be in favour of and get rid of the parking management company altogether, either that or put a gate up, the original hinges are still there so it would not take a lot to implement if they are that worried about people parking there out of office hours.Where has all the local generosity gone these days? Why not offer free parking and encourage people to use the local estate agents and shops that have permits here, the permits are not limited to just the surrounding offices.

 

I notice that some supermarkets are now using these idiots too, Morrison's in Hereford is a joke! We called in there yesterday and did some shopping, we got to the check out and was asked if we had parked in the car park, which we had done, she then asked for my ticket to nullify, I told her that we had no ticket and was not aware that we had to get one and where do we get them? She told me to go out and put a pound coin in the machine then come back and she would give me the pound back? What the heck is all that about? Put me off shopping in Morrison's to be honest, what a rigmarole. 

 

100% agree

[Steve Major]

I don't think using a double drive scenario is quite the same in fairness, the landlords clearly earn their revenue from the permits during office hours, so a small sensible fee for the evening and weekends I would be in favour of and get rid of the parking management company altogether, either that or put a gate up, the original hinges are still there so it would not take a lot to implement if they are that worried about people parking there out of office hours.Where has all the local generosity gone these days? Why not offer free parking and encourage people to use the local estate agents and shops that have permits here, the permits are not limited to just the surrounding offices.

 

I notice that some supermarkets are now using these idiots too, Morrison's in Hereford is a joke! We called in there yesterday and did some shopping, we got to the check out and was asked if we had parked in the car park, which we had done, she then asked for my ticket to nullify, I told her that we had no ticket and was not aware that we had to get one and where do we get them? She told me to go out and put a pound coin in the machine then come back and she would give me the pound back? What the heck is all that about? Put me off shopping in Morrison's to be honest, what a rigmarole. 

 

I am in agreement with your comments Bill and I stopped using Morrison's as soon as they implemented this policy. 

[stupidfrustration]

There are a few different issues here :

 

The supermarket get customers that dont know about the tickets needed to "prove" you shop there - actually - when you think about it - the way Morrisons do it is a good system.

You buy your ticket - then get it refunded when you shop in their store.

 

( I personally dont like it at all - it pi$$ me right off - but I understand it )

 

If they didnt - due to the lack of parking spaces in the town centre im sure they would have office workers just park in their car park all day taking up spaces for shoppers.

 

The car parks that use the companies to send out speculative invoices - I see as a way to control it - although the word is getting out there loud and proud that you dont need to pay these tickets.

 

The drive way example is a little off - but just trying to explain that I do own my driveway - its mine. I work bloody hard to pay my mortgage each month for MY house and driveway. If people want to just come and use MY land - I would be pretty pi$$ed off about it and do everything I could to stop that from happening again.

 

One poster said about about car parks making money Monday - Friday with office workers - yes true - but its still my bit of land from 6pm to 7am 7 days a week.

 

A barrier/gate probably wouldnt work as people who do have a permit for the car park would probably get fed up with that - and there isnt enough money in it to have a person on guard 24/7 - so another poster mentioned above a reduced "token" £1 charge for the evenings.

I think you are probably right  - thats probably the best way for these land owners to operate and get something from their investment.

[Biomech]

Private land is private land - regardless as to whether it's a double drive or a 200 space car park, so my point remains that if anyone here owned land that people kept parking on in contrary to the conditions, you'd want to do something about it.

 

Your Morrisson's ordeal sounds ridiculous (on their part). I'm considerate when I park but if a private carpark (Tesco etc) is full apart from a parent and child space - I'll park in it. Likewise, if I have a broken leg, I'll park in a disabled without a badge.

[Roger]

Morrisons car park is fairly full most of the time when the shop is not ... Probably a mixture of shoppers/people taking the p!ss ... I don't overstay the 2 hours ever ... I don't need to ... But that car park gets really busy ... 

[Steve Major]

Morrisons car park is fairly full most of the time when the shop is not ... Probably a mixture of shoppers/people taking the p!ss ... I don't overstay the 2 hours ever ... I don't need to ... But that car park gets really busy ... 

 

There is a brand new car park on the old Rockfield site, which in fairness is not expensive, personally, I think Morrison's have cocked up, I have heard quite a few people complain since this new policy of theirs was implemented. They used to have a guy sat in a booth when they first opened that was at least a better option, so may people will get caught out here simply because they don't know that they have to purchase a ticket, you are relying on the cashier to ask you, which apparently is down to the cashier. 

 

 

 

Your Morrisson's ordeal sounds ridiculous (on their part). I'm considerate when I park but if a private carpark (Tesco etc) is full apart from a parent and child space - I'll park in it. Likewise, if I have a broken leg, I'll park in a disabled without a badge.

 

I agree with you on the above.

[M. Preece]

Not in agreement at all actually - definitely not on the "speculative invoices" - but I do understand that its a way to stop people parking on "my" land.

 

 

 

I think you have missed the point here, the landlord, in most cases gets NOTHING from these car park management companies, they merely approach landlords and say this is the best way to deal with people who park on their land, we will do everything and it will not cost you a penny. (But we will earn a small fortune) In general, most landlords will just agree as it costs them nothing. This is not so much about the landlords this is about these companies scamming people and I would never pay them without a court order, which funny enough is very unlikely, why is that? It's one big scam and needs addressing in my opinion.